Fish and Game Information Officer responds to deformed fish concern

Deformed fish planted by DFG in Gull Lake.

In recent days, one of Sierra Wave Media’s website commenters took a photo of what he described as about 15 dead and deformed fish. The fish were abnormally swollen with tumor-like lumps. He was unable to get any response from Fish and Game. Now, we have some information.

Andrew Hughan, Public Information Officer for Fish and Game in Sacramento, looked into the report of the bad fish. We also sent him the photo forwarded to us. You can see it on our website.

Hughan said, “These fish are not representative of what we hope the public identifies as a DFG planted fish. There are always deformities present in nature and in raised fish, especially in the bottom ponds of the raceways where weaker fish tend to congregate. Unfortunately Gull Lake was the recipient of such a group of fish,” he said.

Hughan said these deformities sometimes are due to diseases such as cold water disease which the fish survives at an early stage, but is left with physical abnormalities the remainder of its life. He said, “Often these instances are due to genetic anomalies. The department” Hughan said, “is seeing more of these abnormalities than in the past due to the recent conversion to triploid fish. When you subject the eggs to the pressures of captive rearing and the triploid process (to obtain sterility) you are in a very small number of cases affecting the physical attributes of the trout.”

In a related issue, Senate Bill 1148, now under debate as impacting hatchery funds, apparently proposes the stocking of triploid or sterile fish wherever possible, according to CalTrout. That group says sterile fish grow faster and “provide the kind of angling experience sought by the majority of anglers.” The Gull Lake anglers may disagree.

Andrew Hughan maintains that the deformities seen at Gull Lake are rare. He said, “The Department of Fish and Game spawns, raises and releases millions of trout to stock California’s lakes, rivers and streams every year and these deformities are an extremely small percentage, less than 1%, of the fish produced.”

 

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226 Responses to Fish and Game Information Officer responds to deformed fish concern

  1. salblaster August 10, 2012 at 10:46 pm #

    those are some funky looking fish. add some big oversize teeth and you could make a horror movie.

     
    • gary June 7, 2016 at 8:23 pm #

      Why in the hell would you spend who knows how much$$$$$$$ to produce STERIL fish . Fish&Game never did it before , the last 100 YEARS. Why do it now. Is it isnt broken , Dont Fix It. IDIOTS.

       
  2. Big Rick OB August 11, 2012 at 12:34 am #

    Isn’t it just a little bit strange that so many of these “rare anomilies” happen to die and wash up on shore, in the same place, at the same time?. I have fished in just about every body of water in the eastern sierra since 1977, and I’ve never seen anything like this. Bizarre,to say the least.

     
  3. Trouble August 11, 2012 at 11:27 am #

    Gross, but not surprised to hear Cal-Trout is involved in creating this mess.

     
  4. Local Angler August 12, 2012 at 10:58 am #

    I have caught a few trout missing pectoral fins, or having deformed pectoral fins the last couple years. I’m concerned about the over all quality of fish planted.

     
    • JeanGenie August 14, 2012 at 3:51 pm #

      Local Angler,
      I’ve seen those fin deformities for 30 years. I’m not sure but I think the missing or funky fins are from rubbing up against the sides of the rearing ponds. But those other fish? They must be relatives of Blinky!

       
      • Benett Kessler August 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm #

        Also, our trout used to be afflicted with something called whirling disease. It causes deformities and
        fish can’t swim straight.
        Benett

         
    • TC/The Trout Underground August 16, 2012 at 10:12 am #

      Lost and deformed fins are common to hatchery trout; they get rubbed off on concrete raceways.

      It’s usually pretty easy to spot hatchery trout by their rounded tails.

       
  5. TC/The Trout Underground August 16, 2012 at 10:05 am #

    This whole series of articles represents astonishingly bad journalism. Visit a hatchery and you’ll see a parade of deformed fish. They’re raised in extremely crowded concrete raceways and packed like sardines. So no, they’re often not pretty.

    As for triploid fish, yes, they absolutely do grow faster than non-sterile trout. But the main benefit is that they don’t pass on hatchery genes to native and wild trout populations, which multiple studies have show results in a less-productive, less-adapated population of fish.

    Ten minutes of research would have revealed that to you.

    And whirling disease? Really?

    Whirling disease affects juvenile rainbow trout and has had a hand in decimating rainbow fisheries in Colorado, Montana and other parts of the west, but it’s had very little effect here. In fact, the map shows it’s established in only a few places in CA, and that it’s had almost no effect on the fish.

    Further, that contamination (the spread of the Whirling Disease parasite) is tied to… the same hatchery fish you seem to be advocating for.

    Honestly, writing misleading articles in pursuit of drama does you no credit.

     
    • Benett Kessler August 16, 2012 at 11:51 am #

      Dear Trout, Give me your real name and credentials and I will consider quoting you.
      Otherwise, I stand by the Sierra Wave story, it’s quotes and details.
      Benett Kessler

       
      • taxifornia August 16, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

        jUST ANOTHER REASON nOT TO EAT HATCHERY FISH…

         
    • Mark August 16, 2012 at 2:12 pm #

      native and wild trout populations

      Not much to worry about where there isn’t really a native trout population in the Eastern Sierra.

      Before McMurry brought trout from the Kern River there wasn’t even any wild trout.

      ya ya I know about the native Goldens

       
    • Big Rick OB August 17, 2012 at 1:11 am #

      “Whirling disease…”It’s had very little effect HERE ? Mt. Whitney fish hatchery was closed FOR YEARS because of whirling disease. I remember when they opened it to everyone to fish for free, just to get rid of the entire batch, including the brood stock. The fish had to be cleaned & gutted on site and the heads had to be separated & disposed of by hatchery personnel.

       
      • TC/The Trout Underground August 20, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

        Whirling disease dramatically altered the brown vs rainbow trout counts (largely whiping out the rainbow population) on rivers like the Madison in Montana an essentially all over Colorado.

        In CA, the parasite hasn’t had a similar impact on fisheries, and while the hatchery had to be closed to rid itself of the infestation, that’s hardly the same as decimating a sport fishery.

         
        • Benett Kessler August 20, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

          Whoever you are,
          You don’t seem to be able to accept information that others present.
          In fact, whirling disease had quite an impact in our area in past
          decades.

          The ongoing reports about SB1148 are revealing an unfolding process.
          Those involved have differing views, which we have presented.

          Benett Kessler

           
          • TC/The Trout Underground August 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

            First, of all, I’m not hiding my identity (it’s easily found at my troutunderground.com website). Second, I’m fine at accepting information from others, but because actually read the legislation, I know that a lot of the information provided by Cogdill — and repeated here without any apparent fact checking — wasn’t and isn’t true.

            Yet this publication continues to single source Cogdill’s, and all I’ve seen of CalTrout — in the five stories published — is the republication of a single statement.

            I understand how sticking to a dramatic storyline improves readership; when that storyline is largely bogus, you should expect a little pushback from those who’ve done their homework.

             
          • Benett Kessler August 20, 2012 at 4:01 pm #

            As I said before, we stand behind our stories. I have read the bill, quoted CalTrout, Mr. Cogdill and
            our local Inyo and Mono Supervisors who issued letters of opposition.
            What is your name and your quote?

            BK

             
          • Big AL August 20, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

            Well in all fairness Benett trout is just showing another view .. whether or not his is the truth or the info in the article is the truth … remains to be scene, I don’t see this person as not accepting other opinions as much as he is projecting another view on it. … just saying.

            I will give ya the dig about misleading info causing drama .. but anything can cause drama .. as we well know.

             
    • Russ Monroe August 20, 2012 at 4:49 pm #

      “Honestly, writing misleading articles in pursuit of drama does you no credit.”
      A comment that it would serve you well to stand in front of a mirror and repeat to yourself a few thousand times Mr.Tom Chandler.
      Perhaps if you collected your information first hand instead of reading it from other peoples maps, you might have some credibility.

       
  6. Trouble August 16, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

    There are probably more bait stores in the Owens than bars. Take away the hatcheries and that will quickly change. I fish almost every week and have never caught a fish with any abnormalities. I’ve seen a lot of ugly fishermen.

     
  7. All is Impermanent August 16, 2012 at 4:26 pm #

    From an economic point of view, this area can no longer depend on fishing and camping to generate tourist dollars. It is going in the right direction by an increase in music and art festivals, motocross, wine-tasting, etc. and appealing more towards those who have the money today – the bon vivant.
    Park City, Vail, Sun Valley, Aspen … all of them have figured this out and are doing much better.

     
    • Trouble August 16, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

      All is Impermanent- I sure hope you are referring to Mammoth as “this area”. Inyo County would have almost no visitors stay here if it were not for the camping,fishing , hiking and climbers. There is nothing wrong with adding to our cultural events, but people are not going to travel 3 hours plus to see what they already have more of at home. We need to promote our strengths in my opinion. I hope to hear your reply.

       
    • johnjcampnfish August 16, 2012 at 8:04 pm #

      Bon vivant my eye. The only community on the eastside to offer all those nifty activities that appeal to your so-called bon vivant is also the only community to declare bankruptcy.

       
    • the change it had to come August 17, 2012 at 8:33 am #

      Mammoth Lakes is realizing the best summer ever. With an emphasis on art, culture, jazz, pop, latin and classical music festivals, wine-tasting, beer tasting, tequila tasting, food tasting, Shakespeare in the woods, motorcycle racing … and summer ain’t over yet.
      I feel the pain of those who remain stuck in their belief that those from down South and other parts of the world come here for the camping and fishing.

       
      • Ken Warner August 17, 2012 at 12:44 pm #

        Right. What kind of idiot would drive 500 miles to the Eastern Sierra just for the mountains, lakes, hiking, fresh air and the great outdoors. We need more L.A. style malls!!!

         
      • Trouble August 17, 2012 at 5:08 pm #

        the change – I heard the Doors and Jimmy Hendrix are lined up to play in the woods next weekend. Maybe we can get the Beatles reunion lined up next.

         
      • Bill August 21, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

        “I feel the pain of those who remain stuck in their belief that those from down South and other parts of the world come here for the camping and fishing.”

        Actually, tens of thousands do just that!! I know from personal experience…

        And who ever said it has to be all or nothing regarding fishing vs. art/culture/music events? Why the hell are we so polarizing and dividing?

        I think the Town/County and private interests are on the right track by marketing to anglers AND art/culture/music crowd AND motocross etc etc… – I know tourists that appreciate all these components and activities while visiting our region.

        Supply and demand… fishing is still strong. Don’t let the Humane Society and PETA lead you to think otherwise.

         
        • Big AL August 23, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

          Yes amen Bill … I think the “Mammoth experience” has provided all of what you mentioned, for some time now. People come here for all of those and more ..

          I think the foremost reason people come here is recreation, whether it be outdoor activities or the various festivals that have been offered for several years now.

          The “Eastern Sierra experience” has offered recreation in general for decades, generations of folks have come to the area for relaxation and the natural beauty it has to offer. The “Mammoth experience” is included in this.

          I really don’t see any major modification of activities in store, I think it really works for the most part as it is .. The economy is just what it is right now, we just have to hunker down and have hope it will get better.

           
          • Econ 101 August 24, 2012 at 5:12 am #

            There is a non-spoken belief that for the most part, the economy is as good as its going to get. “America has seen its day”, sort of thing. Every country has had its shot at the top, then one by one falls away and is replaced by another.
            There is still lots of money to be made of course, only it has fallen into the hands of this huge and elite private club that has the political game down so well that its convinced a lot of the little guys that they should vote for millionaires (who pay no taxes) and all will be fine and dandy once again.

            Better advice – When the going gets tough … (you know the rest)

             
    • Ken Warner August 17, 2012 at 8:34 am #

      Maybe we should build more roller-coasters, water-slides and Ferris wheels. And more mascots in bear suits. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

       
      • unclear on the concept August 17, 2012 at 9:14 am #

        Dear Ken,

        Eh?

         
      • Big AL August 23, 2012 at 8:25 pm #

        LOL Ken .. I hear ya

         
    • Big AL August 20, 2012 at 8:54 pm #

      LOL .. whine tasting and art .. hehe

       
  8. econ 101 August 18, 2012 at 5:26 am #

    More dollars are generated from lodging, restaurants, cocktails, art and entertainment than on the sale of worms.

     
    • Bill August 21, 2012 at 9:02 pm #

      Now that’s just silly. Of course there are… when factoring just worm sales!

      But now add in all the other tackle, fishing supplies, fly fishing gear, boat rentals, gasoline, fishing guides, other related gear, lodging by anglers, restaurant bills by anglers (many are catch & release so they eat out!!!!) cocktails (fishermen love to drink!) etc etc and bet you the figure is larger than many care to realize.

      and it’s silly to think we should ignore those visitors who don’t fish! We need to market all the strengths of Eastside, anglers AND non-anglers.

       
  9. A real money-maker August 18, 2012 at 6:23 am #

    Maybe we should have an annual fly-tying festival with casting contests, worm races, and mascots in fish costumes. Yeah, that’s the REAL ticket.

     
  10. Ken Warner August 18, 2012 at 11:00 am #

    When you read on various blogs, posts that support more development or concessions to developers or people supporting such things as airports, events, commercial retail space and tourism — think about those who are paid to sway public opinion in favor of big money’s interests.

    Here’s a good example where Google supported a network of bloggers to sway public opinion as it was being sued by Oracle for patent infringements related to Googles use of Java in it’s Android platform.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57495640-93/oracle-names-bloggers-others-it-paid-to-comment-on-google-trial/

    Oracle also alleged that Google “maintains a network of direct and indirect ‘influencers’ to advance Google’s intellectual property agenda.” Oracle described this network as “extensive” and made up of “attorneys, lobbyists, trade associations, and bloggers.”

    At the same time, however, Google allowed that “individuals or organizations” with some financial connection might have offered their views on the case. It asked the court for further instructions, saying that it wanted to avoid “flooding the court with long lists of such individuals or organizations who might have written something about the case.”

     
    • econ 101 August 18, 2012 at 12:52 pm #

      Believe it or not, there are small towns in America that are booming.
      But what used to work yesterday isn’t working today.
      You cannot get blood out of a turnip is the saying therefore those small towns that are successful today are focusing on those that have the money.
      And as hard as may be to swallow – most of them want more from a tourist destination than camping and fishing.
      Fortunately, with Mammoth focusing on the “artsy-fartsy” crowd, it truly has it all.

       
      • Ken Warner August 18, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

        I’ve been saying for years that tourism is a dying industry. That Mammoth Lakes should focus — in addition to tourism — on education, health care and renewable energy as pillars of a sustainable economy.

        You are just trading one kind of tourism for another. Which is ok and might have a small positive effect in the short term. But long term, we as a community have to produce something that is more useful and tangible than an “Experience”.

         
        • Cause and effect August 19, 2012 at 5:16 am #

          “…tourism is a dying industry”
          Tell that to very liberal, tourism-based communities like San Francisco.
          They are booming. As far as education goes, this community is under fire (as most are) from that foaming-at-the-mouth group that calls itself The Tea Party who refuse to pay taxes forcing the bureaucrats Tea Party hates to now cut back on the amount of teachers, funding, sports, special ed. …
          Our children have to suffer now and are finding their “Experience” disappearing.

           
          • Ken Warner August 19, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

            “..tourism-based communities like San Francisco…”

            Not exactly — here’s the results of 20 seconds of research.

            http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-West/San-Francisco-Economy.html

            “San Francisco’s economic activity attracts and supports a range of industries. As the base for some of the country’s largest banks, the Pacific Exchange, and over 30 international financial institutions, San Francisco is a center for world commerce. Most recently San Francisco is considered the birthplace of new media; its South Park neighborhood houses some of the most innovative new technology companies in the world. San Francisco’s Mission Bay neighborhood is a model for collaborative innovation between the biotechnology industry and academic researchers.”

             
        • Hates tourism August 19, 2012 at 5:27 am #

          “…we as a community have to produce something that is more useful and tangible than an “Experience”.”

          And that something would be …?

           
          • Ken Warner August 19, 2012 at 12:36 pm #

            …beyond your reading comprehension apparently….

             
          • Tourism = $$$ August 20, 2012 at 8:56 am #

            Don’t know how Bridgeport is doing this summer (or other towns in the area, but Mammoth Lakes is booming. Perhaps they are dying as Ken Warner tells us.The service industry, waiters, waitresses, drivers, restaurants, bars, etc. etc. are very happy this summer, thanks to the tourism and artsy activities Mammoth has offered them.

             
  11. Tourism August 19, 2012 at 4:19 pm #

    Hilarious Warner.
    Also telling.

     
    • Big AL August 20, 2012 at 8:58 pm #

      Hilariass Tourism

       
  12. Much more than fish August 20, 2012 at 5:13 am #

    Mammoth Lakes is having its most successful summer ever. And its all because the town is drawing tourists to wine and food tasting events, arts festivals, numerous music festivals plays and many other things the tourists enjoy and are willing to pay generously for.
    I have no idea how the worm sales are going this summer.

     
    • Ken Warner August 20, 2012 at 8:57 am #

      Really? Have you seen the figures for TOT and sales tax revenue? What do you base your propaganda — oops sorry — impressive declaration of prosperity on?

       
    • taxifornia August 20, 2012 at 11:53 am #

      are you a Fish hater??? or just hate fishermen?

       
      • Polarized Nation August 20, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

        More “if you ain’t fer us – yer agin us !” silliness.
        Never even considering the gray areas of social topics.

         
      • Sounds fishy August 20, 2012 at 5:40 pm #

        I hate no one.
        Just merely pointing out that man cannot live by fish alone.
        There are hundreds of terrific people that depend on the tourists who are also looking for cultural-type entertainment or activities.
        To take a page from your book:
        Are you a cultural-tourist hater. Or just hate tourists?

         
      • Dying towns v Thriving towns August 21, 2012 at 5:28 am #

        Tell ya what.
        If you think a town can just promote itself by simply saying:” Welcome to So-and-So … The Fishing Capital of the World!” that town will quickly become another Bridgeport.

         
  13. Much more than fish August 20, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    As a people person, I know a lot of people who make a living waiting tables, pouring drinks,
    washing dishes, cooking food, playing music, selling art objects, driving people around, sweeping floors, cleaning condos, (including toilets) … the list goes on and on. These people ( obviously unknown to some) are extremely happy at the record-breaking summer Mammoth is having. (Not even going to tell you how many tourists were at the Kenny Loggins concert the other night – You’d probably just think it’s “propaganda.
    Perhaps you would be better served focusing on the dreaded Gateway Project or something rather than trying to understand the workings of a tourism-based community.

     
    • Ken Warner August 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm #

      The jobs you mention are like a catalog of the worst paying jobs in America. Why are you so proud that our town can only generate such jobs?

      http://www.myplan.com/careers/top-ten/lowest-paying.php

       
      • Class warfare? August 20, 2012 at 6:47 pm #

        It’s called a service industry and it generates opportunities for employment –
        low-paying or not.

         
        • Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 6:33 am #

          You call cleaning toilets for this guy an opportunity? You must have a dreadful existence….

          http://www.danielroth.net/archive/2007/09/barry-sternlich.html

           
          • Mean-spirited August 21, 2012 at 12:01 pm #

            In psychoanalytic theory, when an individual is unable to integrate difficult feelings, specific defenses are mobilized to overcome what the individual perceives as an unbearable situation. The defense that helps in this process is called splitting. Splitting is the tendency to view events or people as either all bad or all good. When viewing people as all good, the individual is said to be using the defense mechanism idealization: a mental mechanism in which the person attributes exaggeratedly positive qualities to the self or others. When viewing people as all bad, the individual employs devaluation: attributing exaggeratedly negative qualities to the self or others.

            To devalue a person that must clean toilets for a living is … reprehensible and disgusting as well.

             
          • Tourbillon August 21, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

            Are you employed Ken?

            Once upon a time I had to clean sanitary tanks. After college. You may sneer all you like but I’m still proud of the job I did, and every job I’ve ever had, because I’ve been lucky enough to always have a paycheck. As, no doubt, you have been too, albeit at loftier pursuits I am sure. No unemployment check ever crossed Supercilious Ken’s palm, right?

             
          • Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 8:00 pm #

            I’ve not said one word to demean the person who has no alternative to low paid crap work. The job itself is demeaning. Those of you who defend jobs that demean must have ulterior motives. Like making money off the sweat of those poor souls who must do crap work to survive. And you are trying to deflect your own culpability by defending an economy that thrives on the oppression and virtual slavery of the desperate and unskilled by attacking anyone who wants more real opportunity and better jobs for the average person.

            It’s not me or the words you falsely attribute to me — it’s you….

             
          • Benett Kessler August 21, 2012 at 9:28 pm #

            I worked as a waitress when I first came to the Eastern Sierra. Met some wonderful women who had waitressed for years.
            Character is what counts, not what you do to earn a living.
            Benett

             
          • Trouble September 2, 2012 at 4:10 pm #

            Hey Ken, just because all the people hit dislike doesn’t mean your wrong. Most of the people cleaning toilets do so because they are trying to feed their loved ones.

             
      • Wayne Deja August 20, 2012 at 9:58 pm #

        Ken…..The price you got to pay if you want to live in the Sierras’….for many…If you don’t want to work for $12.00-$15.00 an hour,your either going to be unemployed….and stay unemployed,and mooching off someone….or move on to the bigger cities where there is more of a choice of jobs and better money to be made.Unless you got your own business going,working for the county,or DWP,there is a good chance you ain’t going to be making the big wage.

         
        • Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 11:12 am #

          That’s my point. There needs to be better jobs up here and they aint gonna come from tourism no matter what the one man astroturf guy says.

           
          • Comedy Central August 21, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

            “THERE AIN’T NO JOBS HERE!”

            What about service sector jobs?

            “THEM JOBS AIN’T GOOD ENOUGH!”

            What jobs are good enough in a tourist town?

            (utter silence)

            You crack me up Ken Warner! You are truly a funny, funny man!

             
          • Big AL August 21, 2012 at 7:22 pm #

            Ken .. the point is .. there will still be these menial jobs no matter what else you bring in, and there will always be people who are willing to do them .. for a pay check, granted it might not be much .. but they’re thankful to have it.

            What exactly do you think this area should bring in .. not just Mammoth .. Mammoth is not the center of the universe. I know people will hate that remark, but it is true, and there are more than Mammoth locals on this blog site.

            It might be true that we need to take a look at what will make a difference in the local economy, but as I see it, it will still be either predominately based on tourism, or tied to the tourism market. Just a fact, .. if you polled people from outside of the area, you will most likely find that they see it as a tourist destination, you will be hard pressed to break that mold.

             
        • Tell us more August 21, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

          Still waiting for Ken Warner to offer some “advice” as to how to make the big bucks in the area that he insists people should be doing.
          I’m a wee bit tired and bored of the whining and to be more specific – since almost half the residence of Mammoth Lakes (the money-generating engine of the area) are latino, (who historically make up the majority of service sector employment) I wonder how he feels about this fact.

           
          • Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

            Ok Rick, here’s a detail. But I doubt you will get it because you are so dense and so fixated on cleaning toilets for rich people.

            http://www.google.com/about/datacenters/locations/index.html

            Why is there not a data center in, for example, Bridgeport or Crowley Lake? Cool dry climate with lots of cold water nearby. Plenty of sky for satellite uplinks.

            Please, tell us all why these kinds of industry aren’t in Mono County?

             
        • Big AL August 21, 2012 at 6:44 pm #

          Wayne, the county and dwp jobs are not making the big coin either, and of the govt. jobs .. really. Although DWP still produces some decent coin. But you’re right .. about taking any job you can get, to make money in these times.

           
        • Cheap and cheaper August 22, 2012 at 6:31 am #

          A lot of waitresses I know are single moms who work their butts off each day. I appreciate what they do, how hard they work being on their feet all day, and how difficult it is today to make ends meet. I always leave a 20% tip.
          Sadly there are those like Ken Warner that most likely leave nothing for a gratuity as they believe these sort of “crap jobs” are undeserving of anything but a thumbs down.
          These cheapskates are sure to find their next lifetime as a slug living in a styrofoam cup at a toxic waste landfill.

           
          • Ken Warner August 22, 2012 at 9:20 am #

            Actually, I always leave at least a 20% tip. I want your waitress friend to have more, and better opportunities for employment. Why do I get to be a slug for that?

            Should I take the opposite point of view — like many of you — and say that service jobs are the only job you and your waitress friend should ever have because that kind of job is the only kind of job you will ever need?

            But because I want a better life for your friend, I get to live in a styrofoam cup in a landfill as a slug?

            Ok, I take it all back. I don’t want better jobs for anybody on the East Side. Live your lives as a service worker and be happy being an economic slave.

             
      • Commerce August 21, 2012 at 5:21 am #

        Why are you ashamed that tourists come to our town and spend money?

         
      • Devaluation of people August 21, 2012 at 8:47 am #

        Ken Warner –

        Your devaluation of this community’s hard-working residents within the service sector is a sad testimonial for today. Not to mention the continuation of what you call: “the worst paying jobs in America.”

         
      • just one August 21, 2012 at 9:39 am #

        No tourists would come if there was no one to make their beds, no one to serve their meals, no one to pump their gas.

         
        • Trouble August 21, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

          Whens the last time someone pump your gas up here? They will come for the same reason they came 40 years ago. To get away from the big city stuff that some want more of up here. Stock the lakes and keep the roads open and the will continue to come.

           
    • Trouble August 21, 2012 at 5:14 am #

      I doubt people traveled up here to just see Kenny Loggins. I was tempted to go see the concert only because it is so rare we get anybody with major hits up here. My point is, we need to promote our strengths , not our weaknesses. Tourist come up here to enjoy the outdoor actives. Not to see and buy art or stuff their faces.

       
      • Show biz is good biz August 21, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

        Hate to cause you trouble about this, Trouble.
        But the fact is the majority of tickets sold for the Kenny Loggins concert were generated from out of town.
        You simply must get out more often to see what the buzz is all about.

         
        • Benett Kessler August 21, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

          Just curious how you know this statistic?
          BK

           
          • Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

            Hint: he doesn’t…

             
          • Stats are obvious August 21, 2012 at 1:18 pm #

            Know anybody from here that attended?

             
          • Trouble August 21, 2012 at 5:54 pm #

            I know at least 6 people from Mammoth and Bishop that went. Then they camped out near by. What is Mammoth going to do, hang concert filers on L.A’s street corners ?

             
        • Big AL August 21, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

          Dr. Facts .. you bust me up dude .. all of the stuff you come up with for names .. thanks for the laughs. Actually i see what you’re trying to say, but it gets lost in the rhetoric and jabs. too bad.

           
          • ad hominem attack August 22, 2012 at 5:16 am #

            And your contribution to this topic is … ?

             
      • Something for everyone. August 21, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

        Why not outdoor activity stuff – AND the arts, music, food and culture stuff TOO?

        See: Reactionary

         
    • JeanGenie August 21, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

      Much More than Fish:
      I couldn’t agree more. That’s what Mammoth used to be about. We do the service jobs because that’s what’s out there, and then get to live and play here, even though there’s poop for career opportunities in this area. We have fishing and hiking and clean air and water and wide open spaces.

      Its rare that one can have it all.

      I have a better job than a lot of people but my opportunity to advance or make more money is about ZERO.

       
      • Reactionary August 21, 2012 at 2:46 pm #

        A reactionary (sometimes: reactionist) is someone who seeks to restore conditions to those of a previous era. The political attitude of a reactionary is reaction, reactionism (sometimes: reactionaryism). Reaction is always presented against something that it opposes.

        It’s sad to read the angry postings of some on this blog. The belief that things should remain the same (Fishing should always be the #1 attraction in The Sierra) and the mean-spiritedness that always arises as they resist anything they oppose.

        Lead. Follow. Or get the _____ out of the way!

        Be prepared for some ad hominem attacks JeanGenie. This blog is full of this sort of talk-radio sounding nonsense.

         
      • Trouble August 21, 2012 at 5:57 pm #

        Well said Jean Genie!! That’s my story also.

         
  14. Tourbillon August 20, 2012 at 12:25 pm #

    A view of prosperity that is based on how much dough the government has extracted from the private sector is marvelously handy. Under your measures of economic success, all we’d have to do is double TOT and sales tax rates and the economy instantly would be riding high.

     
    • Taxpayer August 22, 2012 at 5:37 am #

      Also under the measure of others (including presidential candidates) regarding economic success, you have multi-millionaires taking advantage of what that government offers in tax shelters, etc. and pays no taxes whatsoever and is now proposing ever more breaks for his mega-wealthy pals. Wouldn’t you love to be a part of that club that is riding high?
      Meanwhile, I am paying taxes so all can enjoy those services government’s provide.

       
  15. Crazy people are everywhere August 20, 2012 at 2:44 pm #

    And the bureaucrat-hating continues …

    To the government-haters:
    You DO understand that your government-hating stance is exactly the same as what motivated Timothy McVeigh?

    Stories like this one are occuring daily in America:

    NEW ORLEANS — At least some of the seven people arrested in a fatal shootout with Louisiana deputies have been linked to violent anarchists on the FBI’s domestic terrorism watch lists, a sheriff said Saturday. The FBI has classified “sovereign citizens” as people who believe they are free from all duties of a U.S. citizen, like paying taxes.

    I certainly hope our community isn’t fostering more Timothy McVeighs or “Sovereign Citizens.”

     
    • Benett Kessler August 20, 2012 at 3:59 pm #

      There is a big difference between citizens who use critical thinking to examine how their government works
      and an extremist group.

      Benett

       
      • Elected officials August 20, 2012 at 5:26 pm #

        Agreed.
        However … let’s not forget that mankind has this odd tendency to take things a bit too far. Almost always.
        Now I totally understand the ire directed towards elected officials. Those who find themselves in power positions, who let’s say are also developers. These people often have no credentials for governing other than they got the most votes. In this community, this can mean 3 votes. One supervisor actually had this scenario the last election. There is clearly not enough honest recusing going on as its always about taking advantage of the capitalistic system and finding ways to collect dough from a project. Throw the bums out!
        But to put the word “bureaucrat” into a category (like the word liberal) with the connotation that is clearly a negative one, is mean-spirited. I.e., should an administrative assistant be chastised as one of those nasty “bureaucrats” because her salary is payed for with taxes? How about the janitor? The cop on the beat … I hope you can see where I am going on this.
        Please focus on the most troublesome of the bureaucrats … the elected officials.

         
      • Taxpayer August 21, 2012 at 6:08 am #

        “Mono County road crews went to work to clear the road which is now reportedly passable.”

        Is this an example of how a citizen’s government works?

         
  16. Priotities August 20, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

    Economic success is measured by how well the little guy is able to makes ends meet.
    Not how rich a person can get in his lifetime.

    There are more millionaires today than in the entire population of New York City.
    2.6 million people slipped into poverty in the United States last year, the Census Bureau reports, and the number of Americans living below the official poverty line, 46.2 million people, was the highest number in the 52 years the bureau has been publishing figures on it.

     
    • just one August 21, 2012 at 7:57 am #

      I have said this over and over. It is a horrible circle. If the little guy doesn’t make enough money to spend then the rich guys don’t make any money. If our pay is low we will do what we can to save. Like go out of town for a cheaper price, instead of spending locally. Which we all want to do, but we can’t afford it. IT IS THE LITTLE GUY THAT MATTERS. We are the base of the economical pyramid

       
      • Phillips Curve August 21, 2012 at 11:53 am #

        In economics, the Phillips curve is a historical inverse relationship between the rate of unemployment and the rate of inflation in an economy. Stated simply, the lower the unemployment in an economy, the higher the rate of inflation. While it has been observed that there is a stable short run tradeoff between unemployment and inflation, this has not been observed in the long run.[

         
  17. esfotoguy August 20, 2012 at 8:13 pm #

    Hey Bennet, judging by the discussion, Im sorry I sent the pic.

     
    • Benett Kessler August 21, 2012 at 11:12 am #

      Never be sorry for revealing what is. I thought the response from the Fish and Game
      Information Officer was revealing too. Otherwise, we might not have known.
      Benett

       
  18. Big AL August 20, 2012 at 9:07 pm #

    Good point Priorities .. the rich keep getting richer .. only poor don’t keep getting poorer .. everyone else is getting poorer.
    Those middle and low income rich people are only making it possible for the ultra rich to get richer .. and for them to make it possible generate more poor people out of the middle class. The middle class is a vanishing class.

     
    • Trickle-down my (you know what) August 21, 2012 at 11:57 am #

      And now we have a presidential candidate who is pushing for even more tax breaks for the rich.
      I want to be in that millionaire group too.

       
  19. Ken Warner August 21, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    Elevating crap jobs that others have to do out of desperation just to ennoble oneself is just narcissistic self aggrandizing.

    There is nothing romantic or self fulfilling about cleaning toilets — other than your own. And if that’s the only kind of job a community can offer and at the same time decry any thought of trying to improve the lives of those desperate people, who have no other options, by bringing in other more rewarding jobs and industries — then the community is engaged in virtual slavery and oppression of the least fortunate for the benefit of those few who continually proclaim the nobility of those crap jobs. And that’s what is happening on an industrial scale here in Mono and Inyo Counties.

    We need more and better jobs on the East Side and there is no reason why they aren’t available except for the narrow minded focus on tourism. If you can’t understand that simple idea, then you are part of the problem and have no right to claim the solution is more of the same.

     
    • Don't devalue people August 22, 2012 at 5:12 am #

      Someone on this blog used to work for a company called Unix as a programmer. Extremely angry at the loss of his job, he is now venting his anger towards the good people in our service sector who work hard and are not getting rich. It is sad how anger manifests itself. There are many afflictive emotions such as conceit, arrogance, jealousy, desire, lust, closed-mindedness, and so on, but of all these, hatred or anger is singled out as the greatest evil. This is done for two reasons. One is that hatred or anger is the greatest stumbling block for those aspiring to enhance his or her altruism and attain a good heart. Second, when hatred or anger are generated they have the capacity to destroy one’s virtue and calmness of mind.
      It is best to accept that in a tourist town the service sector will always exist.

       
      • Ken Warner August 22, 2012 at 9:29 am #

        And I guess you think that the people of the East Side only deserve to work hard for chump change in the service sector with no chance for any other kind of job?

        Your post is one of the most twisted and fantastical attacks on an imaginary foe that has appeared in this blog — and there’s been a lot of those.

        Who is this mythical programmer that worked for this mythical company? That’s a projection of yourself isn’t it?

         
    • JeanGenie August 22, 2012 at 10:10 am #

      Ken:
      How many people do you know that have jobs that are “Romantic” or “self-fulfilling”? I hate to sound like a complainer, but money is everything when it comes to work. Thats why people do it, they need money.

      We live in a resort area, therefore, we have the typical resort jobs. My old job was horrible to me, I hated the mismanagement (I liked the actual work), but I made good money and benefits, so I stuck it out. If I could’ve made that money scrubbing toilets and cleaning condos I may have quit and done it. What are you going to do, train monkeys or make robots to clean motels? Or wait tables?

      I’ve seen a lot of attempts (or should I say mainly heard a lot of talk but not seen much action) to start businesses or even keep existing ones going and it never pans out. Sort of like squeezing blood out of a turnip. Making a living is a struggle in this area, and personally, I don’t think that will ever change, no matter how much we wish it to be so.

      And finally I’ll say that this is a free country and no one is forced to live in Inyo or Mono Counties and if they can get better jobs somewhere else they are free to do so, there is no slavery here, virtually or otherwise.

       
      • Ken Warner August 23, 2012 at 12:38 pm #

        I had a job (a career really) that I found quite satisfying. But I had to move away from the area to pursue it. And I know there’s no real reason why the kind of industry I worked in for over 20 years couldn’t find a place up here in the East Side. I was only able to move back up here after I became an independent contractor that could telecommute. And I regret those lost years being away from here.

        The question is why all the new industries that have been created in the last 30 years hasn’t come here to the East Side. It’s almost like there’s powerful forces that work against that kind of industry coming here.

        And one wonders why some speak out against alternative industry coming to the East Side. Why would they want to deny any alternative industry jobs to their friends and neighbors? Why would they want to deny the possibility of better jobs to their friends and neighbors? Are they being paid to do so?

        Your analogy of “squeezing blood out of a turnip” is appropriate. And it will remain that way as long as there are no alternative industries to tourism.

        And about robots doing service worker jobs. That’s going to happen eventually. The Japanese are putting a lot of effort into just that area. They want robots that can look after their senior citizens who they revere — unlike here in America where senior citizens are seen as a drain on the economy with all their unreasonable demands for health care and protection from poverty (that’s satire for those who don’t get it).

        Given that eventually, many low skill workers will be replaced by some form of automation, what then will happen to the service industry workers here now? Even now, drive through windows could be completely automated. Some service jobs like bar-tending already have had demonstration projects where robots do a pretty good job at mixing drinks to order.

        The future is coming down on the East Side like a freight train. Some of it will be good, some of it — not so good. Get ready for it.

         
        • Capitalism 101 August 24, 2012 at 5:26 am #

          America is a place where a person leaves the country and moves to the city, in order to make enough money to move back to the country.

          Be happy in your work. – Confucius

           
    • Big AL August 23, 2012 at 8:49 pm #

      Ken I totally hear what you’re trying to say, but what I am trying to say .. is that even with the change you are saying should happen .. there will still be a good number of those sort of menial jobs.

      Whether people come to camp, ski, art festivals, fish, hike, bike. They will still be lodging, and dining, buying gas, you name it. That all will involve service industry jobs, which involve the sort of jobs you are so against.

      And you being against them is understandable, the cause you are championing is understandable, but they will always be there, they have been part of the job market all through history, no matter the industry.

      Wanting better for people is admirable, I admire that you feel that way, I think most would agree. Some won’t that is a given, some just have a chip to chip at.

      This area is a tourist destination, as I formerly stated, you will be hard pressed to change that Ken, is all I am saying. The haters out there, they just seem to want to argue and attack on anything.

       
      • Ken Warner August 24, 2012 at 2:32 am #

        I never said that service sector jobs would go away. I never said that there was no need for service sector jobs. I never said that the people who work those jobs were bad people. I never said that tourism would cease.

        Here’s what I originally said:

        “The jobs you mention are like a catalog of the worst paying jobs in America. Why are you so proud that our town can only generate such jobs?”

        Those are distortions of what I originally said that were created to attack the idea of better jobs coming to the East Side. Why that person chose to create those distortions and why he chooses to attack the idea of better jobs on the East Side is unknown to me. But those distortions that where attributed to me seemed to be repeated by others as if I really said those things.

        Yes, there are a lot of tourists that come up here. When LADWP tricked the early Owen’s Valley farmers and ranchers out of their water rights and killed off agriculture and ranching, they told those people that tourism would replace the money they would lose from farming and ranching. That myth has been reinforced for decades so it’s understandable why some believe it’s the one true industry for the East Side. It’s become sort of a religion — tourism has — and one risks being burned at the stake for heresy suggesting that there are other possible industries for the East Side.

        I’m not against service sector jobs, I just think they are terrible jobs that don’t pay well and that is easily proven. But saying the obvious somehow qualifies as sacrilege. And then the attacks start and then I respond in kind and so it goes.

        And like JeanGenie pointed out, the kind of jobs that could be here wouldn’t be for everybody. But some people would love to have that kind of job here. I know I would have.

        Here’s something I’ve been thinking — let’s imagine that 30 years ago, the big, rich, high tech companies of Silicon Valley put their roots down here. Lots of big money and lots of smart people who have the time and energy and connections to get involved in local affairs. Do you think they would stand for the draining of Owens Lake or Mono Lake or the continuing rape of the Owen’s Valley water? LADWP would have a lot of strong opposition and the water situation might be entirely different now had those companies started here. Just a thought….

         
      • the pot calling the kettle August 24, 2012 at 9:51 am #

        “The haters out there, they just seem to want to argue and attack on anything.”

        When one finger is pointed outwards – the others are pointed towards the pointer.

        Well … I’ll be … isn’t that … why, that’s YOU Al !

        : >

         
  20. Ken Warner August 22, 2012 at 10:17 am #

    There’s some really crazy people who post here. I want more better opportunity for employment for people on the East Side and some of you go ballistic at the idea that anybody should have a better life.

    Truly an amazing response!

     
    • Tourbillon August 23, 2012 at 3:22 pm #

      Ken, I think you’d find it easier to persuade people about your plans for “more better” opportunity if your posts were as measured and thoughtful as some of your recent ones. Works much better (betterer?) than nasty and personal.

       
      • Ken Warner August 23, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

        Yes, true, guilty for getting sucked into the rancorous tone of many. I try and frequently fail. Such is the human condition.

        But I don’t have a plan. It’s just a vision based on my experiences elsewhere. The Owen’s Valley is just a place. Like Torry Pines Mesa in La Jolla that is wall to wall bio-tech. Or Silicon Valley — really not that far from here. Apple in in Cupertino and is the richest company in the World.

        Why aren’t they here? It’s a lot nicer here and cheaper to live believe it or not. And why do people get so violently opposed to even considering the possibility?

         
        • Big AL August 24, 2012 at 5:08 pm #

          Who’s being violently apposed to it?

           
  21. Sour Grapes August 22, 2012 at 10:26 am #

    Here ya go.

    From CNEW News – http://news.cnet.com/Is-IT-hiring-picking-up/2100-1022_3-5418331.html

    ‘Ken Warner, who has 15 years of experience as a Unix programmer, is a case in point. The Mammoth Lakes, Calif., resident hasn’t been able to get work since mid-2001, despite applying for more than 100 jobs. “I doubt if I ever will work as a programmer again,” he said in an e-mail. “I’ve pretty much stopped sending out my resume.” ‘

    I hear there is work at The Mountain. But it might be for “chump change.” But it’s better than ragging on and devaluating the hardworking people that serve the tourists.

     
    • Ken Warner August 22, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

      Oh thanks, forgot about that. So you actually looked me up on the internet? You must really hate me for some reason to go through all that.

      But I can use what you found to demonstrate what I’ve been trying to tell you all from a more personal perspective.

      I’m a programmer — or was a programmer. Programming is a funny business. There is lots of technical specialization in the programming. I was a UNIX/C/X-windows programmer and then taught myself Java. And at the time of that article, I had been an independent Java consultant for about 5 years. Java was hot in the late ’90’s and early in this century and then for various reasons, people soured on it.

      Here’s my web site that I left half finished that I was trying to sell my last product —
      http://pancyl.com/

      Both those technologies are niche technology areas. In San Diego, where I moved here from, there is more available jobs in those areas. Java and UNIX/C/X-windows were mostly used in scientific and technical programming. JPL uses Java a lot for its visualization software.

      Here in Mammoth, there aren’t any jobs like that that I’ve found. The jobs on the mountain are really not what I do. So there’s the issue. There could be more jobs and opportunity but the focus on tourism means that the community leaders don’t try to recruit technical industries to come to the area.

      On the other side of the mountains is Silicon Valley. Just a place in California that seemed to attract the high tech industry. Ever been there? It’s crowded and expensive. What keeps those kinds of companies out of the Owen’s Valley? Or why don’t the bio-tech industry of San Diego come here. Or the tech firms that line the Sorrento Valley area in San Diego? What keeps them away from the Owen’s Valley?

      Most of the people I worked with over the years would love to live here. I tried to figure out how to live up here and still work as a programmer for 15 years before I finally just moved here and eventually retired. I telecommuted from here to complete work on my last Java assignment. There are other reasons I retired to that I won’t go into.

      But I’ll say this one more time — It’s the jobs in the service sector that suck — not the people — and I want more better opportunities for them. I’ve done those jobs too before I became a programmer I have the right say service sector jobs suck because I did them — lots of them including cleaning toilets for rich people. And I won’t do that again.

      They are stepping stone jobs. Not career jobs. They are for young people while in school on their way to a better job in other fields. They are use’m and lose’m jobs. Look funny at your boss and adios….

      You researched me — for god only knows what creepy reason, do the research on service sector jobs. You won’t find much to like about them except that there’s a lot of them.

      I don’t know how many times or how many different ways I need to say these things.

      I know such nuance is hard for you to understand so I expect you will twist what I say here to make me your own personal boogie man but who can really take what you say seriously since even you don’t stand behind what you say. All the different names you use to avoid a direct discussion of your views suggest that you aren’t even comfortable with them. But thanks for helping me make my point — even though I’m sure you still don’t get it.

       
      • Good Luck August 23, 2012 at 5:30 am #

        Ken Warner likes to do research on everything to support his point of view and offers URLs (see post above) to support his rants but does not like it one bit when others do the same to support their position calling it “creepy.”
        His qualifications more closely match jobs found in Silicon Valley and not those of our tourist industry and justifies his devaluation of those in the service sector ie., waitresses, drivers, bartenders, condo-cleaners, etc, for working at such “crappy jobs.”

        Methinks thou protest too much.

        Such is the sad state of “debate” in today’s mean-spirited world that is making talk-radio pundits wealthy. Perhaps Mr. Warner can give that profession a try if he cannot find an IT position in this area.

        Let’s wish him the best of luck.

         
        • Ken Warner August 23, 2012 at 9:20 am #

          Well, I know this is pointless. Rick is beyond reason. But for the record I said:

          “But I’ll say this one more time — It’s the jobs in the service sector that suck — not the people — and I want more better opportunities for them. I’ve done those jobs too before I became a programmer I have the right say service sector jobs suck because I did them — lots of them including cleaning toilets for rich people. And I won’t do that again.”

           
          • Best of the Service Sector August 23, 2012 at 11:36 am #

            We know, we know … (BELIEVE me we know)
            wouldn’t be caught dead doing what our service sector does to pay the rent.
            So, what are you doing in a service-sector economy?

             
      • JeanGenie August 23, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

        Ken, Some people are not smart enough for “more better” opportunities, and some wouldn’t want them if they had them. Not everybody resents having to clean up after other people, and I for one, would like a human to be my bartender.

         
        • Ken Warner August 23, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

          Don’t under estimate your capabilities. I’m no genius and I made it through university. You just have to be scared to fail. You’d be surprised how motivated you can get when you can envision what failure would bring.

          And true, some people’s natural level is not in the technical fields. But I saw many people who one would think not be any sort of candidate for academic success really excel.

          We had the industrial revolution in the 19’th century, we are living through the information revolution now and the cybernetic or robotic revolution is in the wings waiting for it’s cue.

          Might happen sooner or later than I think but it will happen. The young will adapt — as usual — almost instantly. Us old folk will find it just too strange.

           
      • Big AL August 23, 2012 at 9:33 pm #

        Ken … what keeps the companies away? Think about it? How much land is available here in the Eastern Sierras for development? Oh sure I know what you will say .. well they tried to develop the Mammoth airport, They have the Mammoth industrial complex … well yes ..

        Is the land available sufficient enough for these companies to come in and develop their industry? Is there sufficient areas available to house workers, is the area a good accessible area for commerce (the SF … silicon Valley) is very accessible for commerce and has a lot of available land for development.

        I grew up in the “Silicon Valley” (East Palo Alto), lived there for a while before moving away to a better area to raise my kids. The area was right for the technology development, it had everything required for it to advance.

        My brother and I still have our parent’s home in EPA, it’s funny ..Google and Facebook were looking at developing a new facility in EPA, because it had land available still for development, and was on the edge of silicon valley, the heart of technology development.

        East Palo Alto, once was tagged the highest crime area in the nation, highest murder rate per capita (small town, small population, and lot of drug dealers who killed a lot of people).

        But getting back to the Eastern Sierras .. and what keeps that sort of industry from coming here ..

        It just isn’t conducive for that industry, plain enough! I think you should just get used to the idea, that you are not going to get that work here, and do what you can like everyone else or find a place where you can get both .. your field of work and the environment you want.

        I think you shot yourself in the ass in my opinion, when you stated you forgot about the statements made with regard to not getting work in your field. That post was a direct result of your denial of a previous claim.

        Oh thanks, forgot about that. So you actually looked me up on the internet? You must really hate me for some reason to go through all that.

        I think Tourbillon had good advice for you, I would add, that you might just have to eat crow and do them again sometime .. who knows, I hope you don’t have too .. I hope no one has too .. bu the they might. We do not know what tomorrow brings.

         
        • Ken Warner August 24, 2012 at 3:10 am #

          “But getting back to the Eastern Sierras .. and what keeps that sort of industry from coming here ..”

          That’s a question I can’t answer. It’s not something that would happen over night. It is something that could happen over time. Yes, the airport and industrial park and think of the tax base. Don’t you think that Mono County would like the increase in revenue? Money is a fine lubricant.

          “I think you shot yourself in the ass in my opinion, when you stated you forgot about the statements made with regard to not getting work in your field. That post was a direct result of your denial of a previous claim.

          Oh thanks, forgot about that. So you actually looked me up on the internet? You must really hate me for some reason to go through all that.”

          Did you read the fantasy that person constructed around that little meaningless blurb?

          “Someone on this blog used to work for a company called Unix as a programmer. Extremely angry at the loss of his job, he is now venting his anger towards the good people in our service sector who work hard and are not getting rich. It is sad how anger manifests itself.”

          That’s not even close. As far as I know, there never was a company named UNIX. I certainly never worked for such a company.

          The conversation with Ed Fraueheim was about outsourcing and about how outsourcing was decimating the high tech work force. And I really don’t remember emailing him. But I probably did because I was concerned about all the high tech jobs that were disappearing. But that trend started in the mid-90’s. And I wrote many of CNET’s editorialists about that trend from the mid-90’s and into the early 2000’s

          And that’s starting to turn around now that people are becoming sensitive about jobs lost to overseas companies and that H-1B visas are being capped. And by 2004 when his article was published I had already retired. Yes, I’m retired. I’m not likely to work again doing anything.

          But read “Don’t devalue people’s” — one of his many pseudonyms — story he wove around that. And you wonder why I get caustic at such nonsense?

          And another thing, people who use multiple pseudonyms to deflect direct discussion of their postings — can you really take them seriously? They are the equivalent of taggers — you know — the kind of person who has to spray paint any blank wall he sees with his spore like a tom-cat.

          And you want me to eat crow? Well cook it up. We’ll give a try and see if I can gag it down….

           
        • Ken Warner August 24, 2012 at 4:10 am #

          And just for further clarification. What I probably meant when I wrote:

          “I doubt if I ever will work as a programmer again,” he said in an e-mail. “I’ve pretty much stopped sending out my resume.”

          What I probably meant was that I would probably never work as a UNIX/C/X-windows programmer again. Because in 2001 I was actually an independent contractor doing Java consulting for some pretty good money. I was telecommuting from Mammoth at the time and that work continued well into 2003.

          I don’t know when I wrote that email or the context or other details. But read the fantasy that guy constructed around those two sentences and try and figure out why someone would do that. I added it below. It’s insane.

          ——–
          Someone on this blog used to work for a company called Unix as a programmer. Extremely angry at the loss of his job, he is now venting his anger towards the good people in our service sector who work hard and are not getting rich. It is sad how anger manifests itself. There are many afflictive emotions such as conceit, arrogance, jealousy, desire, lust, closed-mindedness, and so on, but of all these, hatred or anger is singled out as the greatest evil. This is done for two reasons. One is that hatred or anger is the greatest stumbling block for those aspiring to enhance his or her altruism and attain a good heart. Second, when hatred or anger are generated they have the capacity to destroy one’s virtue and calmness of mind.
          It is best to accept that in a tourist town the service sector will always exist.
          ——–

           
          • Good Luck August 24, 2012 at 9:21 am #

            The service-sector of our community should be applauded – not devalued. And thank goodness there are others on this blog that agree to also applaud the over-worked and undrpaid those who do the “crappy jobs”.
            Best of luck in your robotics business.

             
        • What's in a name? August 24, 2012 at 5:00 am #

          Wow!
          That’s a lot of information to digest there Big.
          Quite unusual and civil-sounding (for the most part) as well.
          Have to start referring to as Nurse Facts.
          : >

           
          • Big AL August 24, 2012 at 5:17 pm #

            Thank you Dr. Facts … for the most part eh?

             
    • Trouble August 22, 2012 at 8:52 pm #

      Sour Grapes- your personal attack on a person that is just blogging his beliefs is shameful at best.

       
      • It's how you look at it August 23, 2012 at 8:36 am #

        Some are revolted by the way some people must make ends meet –
        others revere our service sector friends and neighbors.

         
      • a chronology August 23, 2012 at 9:14 am #

        I don’t like the tourism industry because the jobs are crappy!

        This area should have more job opportunities than waitressing!

        Why doesn’t Silicon Valley move here and give us better jobs?

        I used to have a good job elsewhere, moved here, and now find that in my field of expertise no jobs exist here.

        The only jobs here are tourist-based service sector jobs.

        I don’t like the tourism industry because the …

         
      • Same difference August 23, 2012 at 9:56 am #

        And a personal attack on those in a profession someone doesn’t like, is also shameful at best.

         
        • Big AL August 23, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

          You just don’t get it Dr. Facts.

           
          • Talk-radio days August 24, 2012 at 4:55 am #

            Big hates substance and proofs (facts) in discussing topics.
            Thinks its stupid.
            Would rather rely on emotion.
            Mostly anger.
            Lots of that going round today.
            Pity

             
          • Big AL August 24, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

            Keep it coming Dr. Facts, I love it how you shoot yourself in the foot .. lol .. it only serves to bite you in the ass.

             
          • Big AL August 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm #

            hehe at least Ken likes it you’re on someone else’s butt.

             
  22. Ken Warner August 22, 2012 at 12:46 pm #

    And most people on the East Side make even less because they only have tourism jobs available to them. So keep on romanticizing low paying jobs and attacking anybody who suggests looking for new industries for the East Side. That’s what MMSA and their big holding companies want you to do and think.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jOCjhEae1YxagqhN-8gpLSLx75kw?docId=38451ee4eb6445b78e217fe623c3b662

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The middle class is receiving less of America’s total income, declining to its smallest share in decades as median wages stagnate in the economic doldrums and wealth concentrates at the top.

    A study released Wednesday by the Pew Research Center highlights diminished hopes, too, for the roughly 50 percent of adults defined as middle class, with household incomes ranging from $39,000 to $118,000. The report describes this mid-tier group as suffering its “worst decade in modern history,” having fallen backward in income for the first time since the end of World War II.

     
  23. Ken Warner August 25, 2012 at 1:13 pm #

    “Good Luck (or somebody) wrote on August 24, 2012 at 9:21 am #

    The service-sector of our community should be applauded – not devalued. And thank goodness there are others on this blog that agree to also applaud the over-worked and undrpaid [underpaid] those who do the “crappy jobs”.
    Best of luck in your robotics business.”

    Rather than the word ‘devalue” better, more descriptive words for what you imagine I’m doing would be:
    1) denigrate
    2) disparage
    3) diminish
    4) deprecate

    Now I know how upset you get when anybody suggests anything better so take a deep breath and count 10 before you melt your keyboard again.

    But at least I’m making progress with your perceptions. You now agree that public service jobs over work and underpay those that perform those jobs. That’s a small step toward the reality you so cherish.

    As for my robotic business, I’m afraid the Japanese have got me beat:

    http://www.gizmag.com/honda-miimo-robo-mower/23854/

    Is mowing the lawn one of those household chores that you absolutely dread? Well, Honda is offering a new product in Europe designed to make it so you never have to walk behind a lawn mower again. The Honda Miimo is Honda’s entry into the growing robotic lawn mower market.

    ASIMO with a leaf blower would be awesome.

     
    • The spirit of service August 26, 2012 at 6:07 am #

      Ken, In one way or another, we are all here to serve.
      With diligent effort, the mind can be trained to understand this, resulting in a person being on the path to tranquility.

       
    • Diversity on County Board needed August 26, 2012 at 8:41 am #

      Nearly half the population of Mammoth is made up of people of Mexican origin.
      The vast majority of them are in the service sector of our community that does not pay all that well (as Ken Warner likes to point out to us). These people are some of the most polite and hard-working people on Earth. This segment of our community is not represented on the county board of supervisors. I would like to see someone from within our Mexican community come forward and be willing to run for county supervisor in order to provide more diversity on that board and a broader and fairer representation than presently exists.

       
      • Ken Warner August 26, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

        I’d vote for that. I think the City Council of Mammoth should be half Hispanic along with many of the appointed positions. And I’d also like to see SEIU more active here. There needs to be more balance and more fairness in employment not only in Mammoth but in the whole East Side.

         
        • Poor political posturing August 27, 2012 at 7:49 am #

          You are right on, Ken. It’s absurd that an elected official for the county or town would think he or she is qualified to understand the needs, wants, and culture of a group of people that make up half the population of Mammoth Lakes – the Mexican community.

           
        • JeanGenie September 6, 2012 at 10:49 am #

          Ken etal, The City Council is elected, you can’t force the ethnic makeup.

           
      • Big AL August 26, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

        Dr. Facts, this shows how much you know about the Hispanic population. As noble as your thoughts are, you have no idea of who they really are.

        Not all Hispanics are of Mexican decent, the Hispanic community is diversly made up of several different nationalities.

        So many people unknowingly demean them by calling them Mexicans. for some it is ignorance, others like to demean.

        The Hispanic community is made up of people from north America, south America, and Spain. There are several countries in which they come from, and they do not like being called Mexican, unless of course they are from Mexico.

        So maybe the Hispanic community should have someone represent them, but I would just prefer to see someone represent them no matter what ethnicity they are.

        We should be representing people no matter what color they are, that is what I argue about stopping the cycle or racism, in which you love to point out that I hate equal rights, but as I say bring it on brother.

         
        • Mexicans need representation August 27, 2012 at 5:23 am #

          Your ignorance on this matter is showing once again, “Big.”
          You obviously have never even had a discussion with any of our brothers or sisters from Mexico. Simply ask them about this and see how “big” you are on this subject.
          Mexicans in Mammoth Lakes prefer to be refered to as Mexicans and with nearly half the population of Mammoth Lakes from Mexican origin, it is ludicrous that they are not represented on the Mono County council of supervisors.
          A non-Mexican believing they can fairly represent them is the once again the height of ignorance and arrogance.

           
          • Big AL September 2, 2012 at 6:21 pm #

            I’m so glad you see me as ignorant and arrogant Dr. Facts, it just puts the mirror in your hand.

             
        • Town needs fair representation August 27, 2012 at 8:10 am #

          The origin of early California is clearly Spanish.

          For the first half of the Twentieth Century, Hispanic representation remained very limited, partly because the Mexican-American population of most counties did not make up a majority of most communities. However, in addition to poll taxes occuring in states such as Texas, the primary means of limiting minority representation was the process of gerrymandering. In many states, legislatures would divide a county or city into oddly shaped representational districts to give political advantage to one group or another in elections.

          Gerrymandering resulted in voter dilution, in which the political representation of a political unified minority was diminished or altogether obstructed. As a result, even districts containing a majority of Latinos frequently find themselves without proper representation thanks to vote dilution. Gerrymandering of the Latino vote is easily manifested in the nature of legislative redistricting and reapportionment.

          As Mammoth’s full-time citizens are Mexican-Americans, it is ridiculous that they are not represented in this community.

          There must be someone who can change this travesty.

           
          • Big AL September 2, 2012 at 6:29 pm #

            Well I’m glad to see you used the word Latino, it means the same as Hispanic BTW.

            Yes the History of much of California and the south East is mostly of Spanish influence. It was claimed by Spain at first. Then Mexico laid claim to parts of it in its break from Spain.

            It might be they are not represented because no one has stepped forward to volunteer to represent them? And if someone has, they have not been successful in being elected as of yet.

            I say .. we all need representation as a whole, as a people, not a people of different ethnic backgrounds like the polarity which you champion Dr. Facts.

             
        • Mexican info (facts) August 27, 2012 at 9:06 am #

          Big Al hates to hear anything factual. (Hard to play the Limbaugh-game with facts, I suppose) : >
          The opposite of facts would be bull- (expletive deleted) and that’s what too many cling to today.
          Sorry, Big, but here comes more facts for you to give a thumbs-down to : >

          In the 1990s, two terms were widely used to identify Spanish-speaking people: Hispanic and Latino. The latter term appears to be growing in acceptance, especially by younger people who reject the Hispanic identification. The popular use of “Hispanic” grew out of the federal government’s efforts, beginning with the 1980 census, to identify and count all people of Spanish-speaking backgrounds with origins from the western hemisphere. Since the term was employed in most federal government reports, the media soon appropriated it and popularized its use. Some members of the Hispanic community have employed the term to create political alliances among all ethnic groups with ties to the Spanish language. However, according to the Latino National Political Survey, the majority of respondents indicated that they defined their identities in terms of place of origin. Among those of Mexican origin who were born in the United States, 62 percent identified themselves as Mexican; 28 percent as Hispanic or Latino; and ten percent as American (P. Kivisto, Americans All, pp. 386-387).

          Read more: Mexican Americans – History http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Le-Pa/Mexican-Americans.html#ixzz24lPB8As2

           
          • Mexican County Supervisor? August 27, 2012 at 9:14 am #

            While the percentage of Mexican American elected officials is not representative of their total U.S. population, significant changes have taken place since the mid-1960s. The number of state legislators in 1950 with Spanish surnames totaled 20. By the late 1980s the number had increased to 90. In 1991 the National Roster of Hispanic Elected Officials reported 3,754 elected officials in the five southwestern states, mostly of Mexican American ancestry, and 4,202 Latino elected officials nationwide. The increase in Mexican American officials is due in part to the Twenty-fourth Amendment, which banned the poll tax and eliminated the English-only literacy requirements for voting in some states. Redistricting following the 1980 census, as well as a substantial growth in the Mexican American population, have also contributed to the rise in the number of Mexican American elected officials (Feagin and Feagin, p. 274).

            Read more: Mexican Americans – History http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Le-Pa/Mexican-Americans.html#ixzz24lRvDW89

             
          • Why are they being ignored? August 27, 2012 at 1:55 pm #

            It’s no secret that half the population of Mammoth Lakes is Mexican-American. Yet this group has no voice whatsoever on the town council or in Mono County.
            This is absurd in a tourist community where service is the mainstream of the economy and many of which are Mexican-American.

             
          • Big AL September 2, 2012 at 6:48 pm #

            Pretty good there .. you pretty much just backed up what I originally said. That not all people who are of Spanish decent here, are Mexican. I didn’t need to present a whole bunch of facts to prove what I was saying .. but then I guess I appear to be bigoted and racist as you say I am Dr. Facts. Or I should say .. as you allude.

            I am one thumb down there buddy, so I guess some others here see it that way too, or do you claim I am giving you all of the thumbs down?

            I feel honored that I am the focus of your attention, it must be that I am hitting home with the truth, which you seem not to believe in. well maybe you do .. maybe it is distorted, or in your mind very much true. Any other truth other than yours do don’t seem to accept, but that is understandable.

            OK so show me the facts on that .. I can’t wait to see that list.

             
        • Trouble September 2, 2012 at 4:02 pm #

          Totally agree with ya one this one Al. Hope my kids understand this some day.

           
  24. Chet September 2, 2012 at 9:46 am #

    From trout deformities to the governmental representation of illegal immigrants!?! Only in Mammoth.

     
    • Big AL September 2, 2012 at 6:49 pm #

      I know Chet … classic isn’t?

       
      • Big AL September 2, 2012 at 6:53 pm #

        But you see Chet, that makes you racist, the sort of reaction you can expect from people like Dr. Facts … everything is about political correctness and if you don’t see it they way they do .. you are wrong in some way … either being racist (in your case here) or intolerant or bigoted, sexist, what ever it is they can throw at you.

         
        • sounds like a duck September 3, 2012 at 3:24 pm #

          You sound like the other windbag, Big – Limbaugh.

           
      • Schizoid Personality Disorder September 3, 2012 at 3:34 pm #

        6:49 – “Big Al” posts his biased nonsenst

        6:50 – “Trouble concurs with “Big Al” ( moments later)

        6:53 – “Big Al” concurs with “Trouble” and suggests everyone else is crazy.

        Ever heard of the term schizoid personality disorder?

        Here ya go: Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of interest in social relationships, a tendency towards a solitary lifestyle, secretiveness, emotional coldness, and apathy. Affected individuals may also demonstrate a simultaneous rich, elaborate, and exclusively internal fantasy world,[1] although this is often more suggestive of schizotypal personality disorder.

         
        • Trouble September 4, 2012 at 5:07 am #

          Schizoid- take our pill

           
        • sad state of affairs September 4, 2012 at 5:16 am #

          When posting on this blog, it is mechanically impossible to respond as quickly to each other’s comments that Big Al (6:49), “Trouble” (6:50), and “Big Al” again (6:53) has been trying to do to affirm “each other’s comments.
          Find a more fulfilling hobby “Trouble”/ “Big.”
          This is the kind of nonsense that has permeated our society today – and its truly sad.
          Otherwise this format can be a good one to exchange information, philosophies, ideas, factoids …

           
          • Trouble September 4, 2012 at 10:00 am #

            Sad State- Are you suggesting I have a spilt personality or that I generally disagree with your nut ball comments?

             
        • Big AL September 4, 2012 at 7:35 pm #

          LOL Dr. Facts good one!

           
    • Trouble September 2, 2012 at 6:50 pm #

      Chet- your totally right, but since I like causing Trouble, I want to bring up the great wall we are building along our borders right now. I think it is a total disgrace to be building a wall for any reason. I can’t believe anybody would approve of that. Liberal or Conservative. Reagan fans should be ashamed they support building a wall after Reagan’s claim to fame in Germany. Liberals should be ashamed for not trying to stop it . I don’t care what reasons we have, there has to be a better way.

       
      • Big AL September 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm #

        I’m totally with you on this one Trouble .. now you went an done it! … from trout deformities to the Great wall of North America .. hehe. Let’s see what Dr. Facts has to say about this can’t wait.

         
        • Big AL September 3, 2012 at 3:51 pm #

          Um .. are they making this wall wide enough to drive a tank up and down it?

           
    • spotlight September 3, 2012 at 3:26 pm #

      Gotta shed the light on the BS Chet –
      Where ever and whenever it pops up.
      Fishing is not the economic engine of the area
      and Mexican Americans are not demons.

       
      • Trouble September 4, 2012 at 5:18 am #

        Spotlight- Fishing is a large part of Bishops tourism. We have four tackle shops and at least 8 of our retail places have large fish and tackle areas. I think our countries greed brings out most of our demons .

         
        • Big AL September 4, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

          OK so for the record … Trouble posted last 5:18 am I am posting now … 7:42

          I love how you demonized Chet, for a comment I made .. you can’t even think straight in your stories Dr. Facts

          Sorry Trouble hehe … to get you sided with me, the Schizoid personality disorder (SPD) .. I think … belongs to you Dr. Facts, I don’t even try to keep up with calling you by all of your names here. I just call you Da Facts .. nothing but the Facts.

           
          • Hates facts September 5, 2012 at 7:39 am #

            Not fooling anyone, Big.
            Your nonstop caustic posts tell it all.
            The type that hates factual presentations.
            Obsessed with the demonization of facts, …
            as a matter of fact.

             
          • Trouble September 5, 2012 at 1:40 pm #

            Big Al- I think Dr. Facts needs intervention.

             
          • Big AL September 5, 2012 at 7:40 pm #

            I hear ya trouble .. delussional at best.

             
          • Demonizes Facts September 6, 2012 at 8:37 am #

            The resident neocon tag-team on this blog (Big Al, Big Trouble, whatever) views facts presented the way their hero Rush Limbaugh views facts presented – “Hey! That’s Not Fair!”

            These so-called conservative types sadly believe everyone should all subscribe to Limbaughism. (I wonder why they are living in very liberal California? Wouldn’t they be happier in Utah or someplace?)

            limbaughism

            The belief system that embraces the following tenets:

            1. All Republicans are always right about everything.

            2. All Democrats are always wrong about everything.

            3. Anyone who disagrees with me about anything is an idiot and hates America.

            4. I get to decide for everyone what it means to be conservative, even if the issue at hand has nothing to do with conservatism/liberalism.

            5. Any facts that are in conflict with my opinion are lies from the liberal media.

            The opposite of thoughtful discourse. See Beckism.

            Similar to McCarthyism. Simply substitute “Liberal” for “Communist”.

            The oversimplification of any opinion is typical of Limbaughism.

             
  25. Mexican-American Constituents September 2, 2012 at 12:16 pm #

    Your racism is showing Chet. The fine Mexican-Americans who are in the service sector of Mammoth Lakes (Clearly the economic engine of Mono County) are NOT “illegal immigrants”
    You’ve been listening to too much Limbaugh.

    But what is truly mysterious is that one Mono County Supervisor has the wealthiest constituents as well as the non-wealthy constituents in his district (Johnston) but we’ve yet to hear any thing close from him that you might call “representation of constituents” of Mexican-Americans.

    We need Mexican-American representation … NOW!

     
    • Can you say Hypocrite? September 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm #

      Supervisor Larry Johnson’s agenda focuses on lowering salaries for government employees, removing transportation costs to middle-of-nowhere Bridgeport, and says absolutely nothing about what he’ll do for the underpaid Mexican-American workers that make up the bulk of Mammoth’s workforce and are the bulk of the constituents in his district, and has amnesia attacks about how much $$$ he and his wife made together when they were BOTH on the government payroll.

       
      • Big Rick OB September 4, 2012 at 8:34 pm #

        If all of the Mexican-American workers in Mammoth are so (under paid), why am I driving a 18 year old truck and most of them are driving brand new, gas guzzling SUV’S that cost well in excess of 40,000.00 dollars ? Just sayin’.

         
        • Big AL September 5, 2012 at 7:38 pm #

          You’re right there Big Rick .. but we are racist for even thinking that .. lol But those people work their asses off usually more than one job, man and wife.

           
        • JeanGenie September 6, 2012 at 11:51 am #

          Big Rick,
          Don’t forget those big rims and skinny tires, those are about $800/wheel. Not to mention you can’t really chain them.
          I was camping at Kern River once and saw a family of hispanics netting trout out of the river. When they knew they’d been spotted they put the nets behind their backs. I wasn’t able to report it till the next day, so of course they got away.

           
          • Benett Kessler September 6, 2012 at 12:53 pm #

            This is sounding racist. Let’s face it – people of all stripes do wrong things.
            Benett

             
          • Wayne Deja September 6, 2012 at 3:13 pm #

            JeanGenie…I was in Independence a few years ago waiting on the Inyo Sheriffs’ debate,and took a walk along the creek and found a couple of WHITE guys with a net across the creek trying to catch fish…Instead of calling DFG,knowing if I did,it would take hours,days for them to respond,after the WHITE guys left the area when they seen me,I took the net,went back to the campground and set it on fire in the fire pit….another time,I was at Lone Pine campground and came across a couple WHITE guys fishing the creek out of season…didn’t report that either when they took off…instead,what I did,is take their bait (worms) and throw in the creek…and then went back to town to report to the Sheriff Dept…They responded….and called me later that day saying they were caught and cited.

             
          • Mark September 6, 2012 at 4:42 pm #

            Sounding racist? Not even close, big rims and narrow tires is a stereo type. Netting fish is nothing more then breaking the law.

            I wouldn’t even waste my time reporting it.

             
          • sierragrl September 6, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

            in today’s world, mentioning someone’s ethnicity or race counts as being racist. instead of actually applying some sort of prejudice, which is racist. not to mention, hispanics are caucasians so kinda hard to be ‘racist’ against them, they’re the same race as the supposed offenders.

             
        • "Big Rick's" observation September 7, 2012 at 10:30 am #

          From the keyboard of “Big Rick” :

          “If all of the Mexican-American workers in Mammoth are so (under paid), why am I driving a 18 year old truck and most of them are driving brand new, gas guzzling SUV’S that cost well in excess of 40,000.00 dollars ?”

          I don’t know where YOU live Big, but in Mammoth Lakes, those people you are referring to, take the public transportation system, ride bicycles, or walk to their jobs: cleaning condo toilets, sweeping floors, bussing tables …

           
      • johnjcampnfish September 5, 2012 at 10:29 am #

        It would be interesting to learn just how many of that constituent bulk is actually elgible/registered to vote.
        I would also go out on a limb and say that they don’t care if that rainbow they are catching and eating is a genetically pure native as long as it doesn’t look freakish.

         
      • Political Vendetta? September 6, 2012 at 11:07 am #

        When Larry and his wife were living high on the hog,( both receiving humungous salaries from local government), all was cool. Then one of them lost their job, the other resigned for some unexplained reason, and now Larry is back and appears to be on a not-so-hidden agenda to get even.
        This might explain his hyper-aggressive agenda to take away or lower salaries for existing government employees, discontinue their gas allowances ( to commute to middle-of-nowhere county seat, Bridgeport, an hour commute from Mammoth Lakes and the clearcut economic hub of the county, and whatever Larry can think of at the moment. And to top it all off, Larry won his election by a whopping 4 votes. And it is doubtful that those 4 votes were from the Mexican-American community that makes up the bulk of the district he “represents.”

         
        • Benett Kessler September 6, 2012 at 11:18 am #

          You have stated some of these things before. To take up another possible version – maybe he sees money problems in government and wants to cut back. Not everything is personal, and a victory is a victory – four votes or one.
          Benett Kessler

           
          • Do as I say - not as I do September 6, 2012 at 11:43 am #

            Perhaps another and more viable solution in “seeing money problems in government and wanting to cut back” would be to voluntarily refund the exact amount he and his wife were “overpaid” when the both of them were employed with taxpayers dollars. But perhaps he believes they were not overpaid as public servants.
            Until then it seems to me his agenda is just more “do as I say – not as I do” political BS.

             
        • lead by example September 7, 2012 at 6:24 am #

          Since Johnston views his fellows as “all making too much money” I’m waiting for him to offer a personal rebate to show good example, for when he and Mrs. Johnston were also “making too much money.”

          Meanwhile, since the bulk of his district is made up of Mexican-Americans, and he has yet to introduce any program for that group, it makes me wonder if there is a Mexican-American who knows their problems and concerns and is willing to take real leadership for that group.

           
  26. Opportunity to examine racism September 5, 2012 at 9:07 am #

    Big Rick (you guys with those “Big” monikers crack me up!)
    your racism is showing.
    There’s always opportunities to take a look at how deep one’s racism goes.
    To answer your question:
    You are probably not very budget conscious with your dough.
    A lot of Mexican Americans come from dire poverty and are experts at balancing their budgets.
    They are also by and large some of the most polite people on earth.

     
    • Big AL September 5, 2012 at 7:41 pm #

      Uhoh Rick .. now you will get sucked in like Trouble did in Dr. Facts imagination, you will be one of my alter egos LOL.

       
    • Big Rick OB September 6, 2012 at 8:03 pm #

      First of all…I’m 6’4″,280 lbs, .what should I call myself , Little Rick? Second of all, there’s not ONE ounce of racism in my comment. I simply stated that poor,under-paid people cannot afford Escalades or Navigators. Don’t you agree? And lastly…I am VERY conscious of “my dough”. I just happen to put more stock in where I live, than I do in what I drive.

       
      • Stereotypes September 7, 2012 at 5:36 am #

        I don’t know where YOU live Big, but those ultra-polite, willing-to-work for peanuts (and work harder than you have probably ever worked in your live) fine Mexican-Americans (you could learn some manners from them) ride bicycles, car-pool to work, or walk.
        Your stereotype of people of color driving “Escalades or Navigators” is the same throwback to the ignorance of the ’60s, where blacks were the targets for the hate-mongering whites.
        If stereotyping is correct, than your “type” ( I’m 6’4″,280 lbs) would be deemed slovenly, lazy, and puts more stock into what you eat.

         
        • Big Rick OB September 8, 2012 at 12:40 am #

          To I wish I knew your name, Stereotype….Please let me know where this SUV dealership is that sells 40,000.00 vehicles (FOR PEANUTS).

           
      • Discriminatory judgement September 7, 2012 at 8:21 am #

        Dear Big Rick,

        When people judge people and groups based on our prejudices and stereotypes and treat them differently, we are discriminating them based on no fact. This discrimination can take many forms. We may create subtle or overt pressures which will discourage persons of certain minority groups from living in a neighborhood. Women and minorities have been victimized by discrimination in employment, education, and social services. We may shy away from people
        with a history of mental illness because we are afraid they may harm us. Women and minorities are often excluded from high echelon positions in the business world. Sometimes people start discriminating against a group of people after
        bad experiences. For example, the 9/11 incident. If we could abandon our discriminatory judgement and learn to appraise by what they are as individuals, the world would be a much better place.

         
      • Mark September 7, 2012 at 11:27 am #

        If Big Rick can gain another 100lbs we could call him “Tiny”.

         
  27. JeanGenie September 6, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

    Sorry Benett,
    Relating something I observe does not make me a racist. If it were an isolated incident I wouldn’t mention it.To borrow a term from the mental health arena, “its the big pink elephant in the middle of the living room” that we are supposed to ignore if we are politically correct.

     
    • Benett Kessler September 6, 2012 at 4:09 pm #

      That’s true, and seeing one family do one thing does not a pattern make.
      BK

       
      • Big AL September 6, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

        I don’t think he was being racist Benett and that really proves my point .. he mentioned a scenario, now it sounds racist, when it really isn’t .. but it seems you can not make any sort of an observation like that with out someone saying it is racist .. in this case … sounds racist. Just saying.

        Why the hell does every little thing need to be so damn politically correct now days. not being an ass about this but just pointing out me feeling on it. You feel afraid to say things so many times for fear of being accused of racism.

        I mean even Dr. Facts thinks I am racist … he spews that crap out every day. My wife is Hispanic. I grew up in a predominate black neighborhood .. was usually the only white guy in my class … chump ass honky I heard that a lot lol .. it never really bothered me to called a honky, hell I would call my friends niggers at times, for the most part unless they had some problem with me .. it never bothered them.

        My best and oldest friend is black .. I never see him as black really, he is my brother! when I describe him to some one who doesn’t know him sometimes, I use black in the description, so what is the problem, he doesn’t even see the problem in that, he will tell people about me .. say yeah he’s white, so what?

        You can think what you might about all of that, but why am I racist for all of what I just said? It isn’t a problem until the hate gets involved.

        It isn’t a problem until the hate gets involved

         
        • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 8:52 am #

          You are right. It’s not a problem unless hate or fear is involved. Then, it becomes an unfair judgment. I remember talking to former Mammoth Police Chief Bruce McAffee when the Hispanic population began to grow in town, and citizens started accusing the Hispanic people of committing all the crimes. I asked McAffee about it. He told me that he had looked and observed that the crimes were proportional to the populations in town. No one race was committing more or less of the crimes.
          Benett Kessler

           
          • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 1:02 pm #

            Yes I agree Benett, Really if you simply look at the reports of crime .. take for instance Mammoth as we are discussing mammoth here no on this thread .. take a consensus from them and see how many whit people .. Anglos or causasions .. etc .. are involved in these crimes, compared to Hispanics or Asians or blacks.

            Apply that to Bishop, Lone pine .. Bridgeport LA .. where ever .. they will be different in all cases, but they will still show, not one race is to blame for it all.

             
          • JeanGenie September 7, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

            One more thing, does Mammoth PD keeps records that would indicate the ethnic/racial makeup of convicted criminals? If so just publish the statistics. The numbers speak for themselves.

             
      • stereotyping September 7, 2012 at 8:14 am #

        We define stereotyping as a generalization about a group of people whereby we attribute a defined set of characteristics to this group based on their appearance or our assumptions. Why do we form opinions about other people based on their
        appearance, posture, language, and so on? We do this because different factors contribute to why people stereotype each other. We stereotype people when we are unable or unwilling to obtain all of the information we need to make a fair judgement about people or situations. In the absence of the so called ‘total picture,’ to stereotype people in many cases allow us to ‘fill in the missing pieces of information.” Our society often innocently creates and perpetuates stereotypes, but these stereotypes often lead to unfair discrimination and persecution when the person been stereotype is unfavorable.

         
        • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 8:46 am #

          Making judgments based on appearances comes from fear, mostly. We feel internal fear or lack of confidence and try to dismiss those feelings by making someone worse or inferior to us. If you find yourself judging others, stop and look inside.
          Benett Kessler

           
          • Racism in the U.S. September 7, 2012 at 9:29 am #

            Right on, Benett.
            And if I may add, I made note that after watching both political conventions now, nobody mentioned anything about the wall in the southern US to “keep the illegals out.”

            I don’t see that sort of racist hatred on this blog, but there are a lot of unhappy and frustrated campers out there today. Even here in wonderfully liberal California.

            Ie., when President Obama was elected, there appeared to be two definitely distinctive camps:

            One group immediately said: “Wow! I never dreamed I would ever see the day when a black man was elected president.”

            The other group immediately said: Wow! There goes the neighborhood.”

             
        • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 1:03 pm #

          Good post Dr. Facts!

           
      • JeanGenie September 7, 2012 at 12:31 pm #

        Benett,
        I said, “if it were an isolated incident” I admit, I have never seen any other ethnic group netting trout, and this was a big blanket size net that you throw into the water, not a regular handheld net.
        But I’ve also seen over and over Latinos leaving huge piles of garbage on the shore of Pleasant Valley reservoir, keeping fish under the size limit, keeping overlimits, leaving oil cans, beer cans, etc. in firewood cutting areas, picnic sites, and campgrounds. Grafitti all over downtown Bishop, etc. This is not bad behavior on “everyone’s part”. I never saw anything like this in Inyo/Mono counties until the “influx”. In fact, after living in SoCal, I was pleasantly surprised at how clean it was up here. Too bad, can’t live in the past.
        Lets not even mention the concerted firewood stealing, and if you don’t believe me ask the Forest Service.
        This is what Mexico looks like. You drive down to the beach and there’s a huge pile of trash right next to a trash can. If you don’t believe me take a trip down. Although there has been some improvement in the last 10 years.
        To be in denial about this sad state of affairs isn’t fixing the problem. Those who say that California once belonged to Mexico so this is the way it should be and we should all get used to it are FOS. When I visit Mexico I am expected to speak Spanish in order to communicate, because that is the language of that country, same with every other foreign country I’ve ever been too. But here, for some reason, we all better learn to speak Spanish because of the “influx”.
        Its the truth, and anyone who makes excuses or denies it is pretending they can’t see the pink elephant.
        I used to have a friend who said “I’m not predjudiced, that would mean I have prejudged someone, and I have formed my opinion after many years of observation”. So feel free to judge me accordingly, I really don’t care, because I know I speak the truth.

         
        • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 1:03 pm #

          This may be your truth. Others have not witnessed what you have nor feel the angst that you do.
          What is your solution?
          Benett

           
          • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

            No Benett you can not make that statement .. that others have not seen these things, because we all hear it at times from people .. not just one ..so that is not a correct statement.

            And not all as I always point out do what jean is saying but a there is the problem that exists.

            I do not know what the solution is exactly to answer your question. It’s not an easy fix, but I do know it involves society in general.

            In thinking about it just now, it occurs to me in Jean’s statements about the way society in Mexico is, for example, those people who come here from that country .. seem to treat this country as they did their own, it is in how they as individuals respect or do not respect where they live.

            Some of these people come here .. they do not think anything of throwing trash out, others do and do not do such things. But then … there are people who have been born and raised here in this country, that do the same either way.

            The difference is … for the most part people here respect others, the environment and themselves, and have not done this on the magnitude that it is appending now.

            And that could just be a reflection on society in general. Although I have witnessed some of what jean is saying

             
          • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 4:50 pm #

            Big Al, Not sure which statement of mine you were opposing. We must all be careful not to jump to generalized conclusions because we have seen a few things and heard a few things. The Hispanic people I know and have known are lovely, thoughtful, considerate and hard-working people. Of course, I don’t get around much. It is best to keep a balance inside and wait for the truth to reveal itself instead of a pounce on a few facts that we then want to call truth.
            Benett

             
          • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 6:10 pm #

            Benett, your statement to Jean … about no one else witnessing the problem he is talking about, nor feeling the angst .. because others have seen, and do feel frustrated with it.

             
          • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

            I stand by my earlier response to you. Don’t jump to general conclusions based on single experiences.
            BK

             
          • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 6:12 pm #

            but wait… facts, and truth .. aren’t they really the same thing?

             
          • Benett Kessler September 7, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

            No. They are not. The news looks first at facts presented. Truth is a much bigger realization
            that takes time, patience and work to find.
            BK

             
          • Big AL September 7, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

            Well I still stand on my point of view, that you can not say to JeanGenie, that he is the only one who can claim to have observed these things.

            “This may be your truth. Others have not witnessed what you have nor feel the angst that you do.”

            This statement was neither fact of truth as I see it, that is all I’m saying. not pointing to any type of generalization or anything else, that response to him was not correct. .. that’s all .. just saying.

            And please do not tell me I am jumping to a conclusion, when I was not.

            He did not jump to any generalized conclusion he was stating what he know to be so as he has seen it.

            Facts really are the truth as they are presented. Truth has to be proven by the facts. So yeah they really are one in the same, but truth is not a bigger realization, it is only that is needs to be proven by the facts.

             
          • Benett Kessler September 8, 2012 at 9:15 am #

            Truth is a bigger realization than individual facts. There was no statement that JeanGenie was the only one to see something, just that others may not see it this way.
            Please, Big Al, just consider that racial profiling and hate for a race enters very dangerous territory on how we humans deal with one another. That’s all. Just a
            caution when one starts to talk about this race or that race. Individuals make mistakes or do things right.
            Benett

             
        • ethnic conflict September 7, 2012 at 2:55 pm #

          Dear JeanGenie:

          Ethnic hatred, inter-ethnic hatred, racial hatred, or ethnic tension refers to feelings and acts of prejudice and hostility towards an ethnic group in various degrees. There are multiple origins for ethnic hatred and the resulting ethnic conflicts. In some societies it is rooted in tribalism, while in others it originates from a history of non-peaceful co-existence and the resulting actual disputed issues.

          Often ethnic conflict is enhanced by nationalism and feeling of national superiority. For which reason inter-ethnic hatred borders with racism, and often the two terms are conflated.

          On the opposite side, ethnic conflict may stem from the feeling of real or perceived discrimination by another ethnic group, see “reverse racism”.

          Ethnic hatred has often been exploited and even fueled by some political leaders to serve their agenda of seeking to consolidate the nation or gain electorate by calling for a united struggle against a common enemy (real or imaginary).

          In many countries incitement to ethnic or racial hatred is a criminal offense.

          I must ask you, JeanGenie, how do you feel about the fence barriers on the southern borders of the country?

           
          • JeanGenie September 7, 2012 at 5:19 pm #

            Benett and Ethnic,
            I don’t hate anybody, most people or situations are not worthy of wasting energy on such a strong emotion. At the risk of sounding cliche’ I like most Mexicans and Mexico, thats why I enjoy traveling there.
            My solution, if I was in charge, would be to make it impossible for illegal aliens to use our schools and social services, allow landlords to ask for legal documentation and refuse to rent to illegals, and require employers to only hire people that are legally in the US. Since I’m not in charge, I doubt this will happen, but I know I’m not alone in my opinion.
            We are the only country in the world that allows illegals to overrun our country and then tries to justify it as being somehow “right” or paints those of us who disagree with these policies as “haters” or prejudiced, etc. There are a lot more people in the world and in the US than there were 20 years ago, how many more can we take? How about it Jeremiah? Where’s the sustainibility there? If you had an air raid shelter that could comfortably take 10 and uncomfortably 20 would you just leave the door open because the unprepared and ones unwilling to take care of themselves keep on coming?
            In my Grandparents day, there were plenty of immigrants, but they tried to do it right, learned the language, and laws and became citizens, not tried to force the US to become a microcosm of their native country. We are strong in our diversity, but allowing our country to become overrun by illegals is just plain stupid.
            And like Al or Rick or whoever said it I wonder how people can afford those $40,000 SUVs, but it doesn’t make me hostile.

             
        • Learn from the Mexican- September 7, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

          Wow! I never would have dreamed there was so much racial division in Bishop. Here in Mammoth Lakes, our Mexican-American brothers and sisters are accepted and appreciated for all the hard work they do in the service sector of this town’s tourist economy. And they work for peanuts.
          Caucasians could learn much from these wonderful and incredibly polite people.

           
        • Can't hide the racism September 7, 2012 at 8:43 pm #

          Shame on you Jean.

           
        • Big AL September 8, 2012 at 10:55 pm #

          Jean, I understood what you are saying, even if some do not see it or want to see the truth in it.

           
  28. misperception September 7, 2012 at 8:06 pm #

    Bikes, public transportation, and walking is how I see my Mexican-America brothers and sisters getting around town.
    Must be different in Bishop, I guess.

     
  29. Jon September 7, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

    Really???? Two Hundred and Nine comments on this story???? Really???

     
    • Big AL September 8, 2012 at 10:49 pm #

      Yeah Jon .. but looked how it morphed.

       
  30. Big AL September 7, 2012 at 11:22 pm #

    Yes I totally agree Jean, That’s just it ,, you are not wrong for your views, but those who feel everything has to be politically correct will label you and I and others who feel this way as haters, or intolerant. There’s no hate in your views, just seeing it in the light of the facts, plain and simple.

    But you watch .. the politically correct people will turn it around on you!

     
    • Benett Kessler September 8, 2012 at 9:11 am #

      There’s a difference between “political correctness”, i.e. phoniness, and honest assessment of human beings. Making negative statements about people, specifying their race, leads to the danger of painting all people of that race with some kind of bad behavior. We owe it to others and ourselves not to make unfair judgments.

      Benett Kessler

       
      • Racism through the ages September 8, 2012 at 11:43 am #

        Well put, Benett.
        I sense that racism has been going on for so many generations now in their community, the racists no longer believe that stereotyping an entire group of people is harmful in any way.
        And those that point out their erroneous and backwoods thinking are also demonized.

         
  31. Big Rick OB September 8, 2012 at 12:16 am #

    Well said,Jean. It’s time to stop all this (political correctness) BS and for Law Enforcement, Federal,State AND local, to uphold the law…ALL laws, whether they’re popular or not.

     
  32. Racism not so disguised September 8, 2012 at 6:40 am #

    “I wonder how people can afford those $40,000 SUVs” (people in this case means Mexican-Americans)
    I don’t know where you live, but in Mammoth Lakes, they take the free trolley, ride bicycles, or walk to their service-oriented, low-paying jobs.

    I’m wondering if you also support trying to build a wall around the border of the U.S. JeanGenie?

     
    • Big AL September 8, 2012 at 10:48 pm #

      Seee Dr. Facts, I didn’t read any of your posts here .. just thumbed them down for ya buddy. It’s the same stuff just wiped around some.

       
  33. Indygal July 31, 2016 at 9:42 pm #

    I have always said that everyone in America should spend at least 6 months working in the service industry, so that they would understand the pride in service and have respect for service industry workers. I have worked in the service industry for 34 years, and am not above cleaning toilets. Someone has to! It’s insulting to say that any service job is a “s–t job”. I would rather work scrubbing toilets in the beautiful eastern Sierra, than be stuck in a cubicle in a crowded city with high rent.

     

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