Letter to the Editor: Disturbing the peace

ohvDirt bikes may be coming to your neighborhood soon!

by Daniel Pritchett

In December 2011 I called attention to a proposal to use Bishop City Park as a staging area for Off- Highway Vehicles (OHVs) under the new Adventure Trails program. This proposal was so bad I had hoped it would not be taken seriously. Silly me!

Some Inyo County Supervisors not only take this proposal seriously, they recently decided to initiate work on an Environmental Impact Report for for it. Under the Adventure Trails program certain county roads and (Bishop) city streets will be opened up for Green Sticker (dirt bikes, quads, ATV’s etc…) vehicle use. There are many proposed routes and several go through residential areas in Bishop (including my own). One proposed route would use the Bishop Chamber of Commerce as a staging area. This means after disturbing people in their homes in residential areas, Green Sticker dirt bikers could proceed to disturb people at Bishop City Park. What a great idea!

County supervisors shouldn’t need an EIR to recognize this proposal for what it is: bad planning, pure and simple. The purpose of residential zoning is to preserve the residential character and quality of life of a neighborhood. Turning residential streets into corridors for dirt bike through-traffic defeats the purpose of residential zoning. Turning Bishop City Park into an OHV staging area defeats the purpose of a city park. If the proposal is implemented a few businesses will profit at the expense of the peace and quiet of many of their neighbors and users of Bishop City Park. The fact that such an unfair idea is taken seriously is testimony to the disproportionate influence of OHV enthusiasts at all levels of government.

OHV enthusiasts already have access to many miles of off-highway routes accessible without driving through residential neighborhoods. The Adventure Trails program won’t open any new back-country areas — it will simply allow Green Sticker drivers to disturb people they would not otherwise be able to disturb: people in their own homes and at Bishop City Park. I can’t think of a better way for OHV enthusiasts to generate ill-will toward their activities.

If there are any people left who share the old fashioned view that residential neighborhoods should maintain their residential character, and Bishop City Park should remain a park, I suggest they contact Inyo County Supervisors and Bishop City Council-members immediately.

Daniel Pritchett Bishop, CA

 

52 Responses to Letter to the Editor: Disturbing the peace

  1. Ken Warner December 10, 2013 at 10:52 am #

    But think of all the money and jobs it will bring. Yes, I’m being sarcastic…

     
  2. Mark December 10, 2013 at 12:03 pm #

    Although I agree the park as a staging area is a grossly bad idea for the very reason you state, I take exception to the accusation of disturbing the peace.

    The days of illegally motified exhaust on OHV’s are a thing of the past.

    Noise emissions of off-highway vehicles shall be limited to not more than 96 dbA if manufactured on or after January 1, 1986, and not more than 101 dbA if manufactured prior to January 1, 1986.

    Now I’d like to mention the group that constantly disturbs the peace with illegally modified exhaust and every Law Enforcement Officer in the area looks the other way. That group is Harley motorcycle riders. They think everyone likes hearing their obnoxiously loud bikes. South Park did an excellent job of spoofing this group of attention wanting riders.

     
  3. Jackson December 10, 2013 at 12:37 pm #

    Did you think about all the Harley motorcycles that are WAY MORE louder that can drive through the neighborhood? What about some of those huge lifted diesel trucks, or gas trucks with loud exhaust? There are plenty of other vehicles that you don’t seem to be issuing a moratorium on in your neighborhood that are currently legal. Realistically, I can’t imagine there will be 1000’s of ATV’s and motorcycles passing your house daily. I would love to hear your thoughts on my comment. Thank you!

     
  4. Steve December 10, 2013 at 12:38 pm #

    You know who really distrubs the peace, all those people who drive around with their windows down blasting their music so everyone can hear it. How about the neighbor that have their TV/music up on high or fighting with their spouse.
    Give the Adventure Trails a chance, the routes are designated for these vehicals are on major feeder streets. If the community feels the program is a nusance then the people will move to reverse this.

     
  5. BBBRRAAAPPPP!! December 10, 2013 at 1:38 pm #

    Ever heard of DUAL SPORT BIKES? They are dirt bikes that are street legal. In fact Bishop is a location of a District 37 AMA dual sport ride. Which brings hundreds of people to town in October for 3 days, renting hotels, eating out…… as far as disturbing the peace; as I said most of these bikes can be legally set up to ride on ALL streets, so sound is not an issue worth discussing. What exactly is it thats going to ruin your peace? These are outdoor enthusiasts that will be using the roads to come to town for services not hells angels.

    You argument has no legitimate reasoning for WHY it is a bad idea other that it will apparently disrupt the peace and is the one thing that this town fears CHANGE!

     
    • Desert Tortoise December 11, 2013 at 8:41 am #

      Green Sticker registered vehicles cannot be street ridden and most cannot be converted to street legal motorcycles. A lot of Honda XR owers found that out the hard way when the state pulled their street registrations or refused to register them after the owners thought they had succeeded in making them street legal.

      Ridgecrest has a similar program and I detest it with a passion. It is badly abused by the local residents, who allow kids far to young to have a drivers license to street ride dirt bikes with no lights whatsoever with no adult supervision. No drivers license, no insurance, just a kid on a motorvehicle on a public street, on their way to the dirt, after cutting through the local unbuilt lots and maybe your front yard. The police are too busy with other things to enforce the law, so you have an out of control situation. That is where Biship will go if it adopts these rules.

      Btw, I am a dual sport rider, an old BMW R80G/S. It was designed from the beginning to be a road legal vehicle and would never qualify for a green sticker, you have to register it as a road vehicle. On the other hand, you would not let your kid ride it down the street to the desert, and it is as quiet as any automobile, quieter than many street bikes. I understand the enjoyment of exploring places that can only be reached by a dirt trail, but allowing green sticker bikes on public streets is an invitation to trouble.

       
      • Mammoth M/C December 11, 2013 at 12:29 pm #

        Wrong. They can, and still are “converted” for street use – legally. I’ll leave the details to your overactive imagination, however.

        Even though we’re happy that the Adventure Trail system is on it’s way, we also encourage all dirtbike owners to look into street conversion as a viable alternative.
        As we all know, the green sticker program is a fraud, and the less we pay into it the better. Green sticker monies (along with other taxes) play a part in the funding of anti-access groups (FOI for example), which inevitably leads to closed roads and overzealous environmentalist action…

        True, you wouldn’t want your child riding an antique BMW out into the desert, but I wouldn’t recommend it for an adult either. lol. those things are as “dualsport” as a Harley. IMO.

         
        • Desert Tortoise December 11, 2013 at 2:14 pm #

          As of 2006 that is not true. No motorcycle manufactured for off road use may be registered for the street. Period. If they were manufactured to meet ARB and EPA regulations they would be manufactured as street legal motorcycles. Neither EPA nor ARB permit off road conversions and they are no longer permitted to be licensed.

          Read what happened to GP Motocycles in San Diego.

          Btw, BMW invented the dual sport bike with the introduction of the R80G/S in 1980 (mine’s an ’86). Every other manufacturer has copied them, sometimes shamelessly. Compared to many modern dual sport bikes like bit KTM Adventures, Super Tenere’s or R1200GS’s, the oldest G/S is lighter and far more off road worthy, while still being a reliable mileage cruncher on the highway. Not fast, but it will always get you there and won’t beat you up in the process.

           
          • Mammoth M/C December 11, 2013 at 3:33 pm #

            Thanks for the legal lessons… So are you talking about California here, or just making generalizations about the whole United States? Please be specific.
            As the saying goes, “there’s more than one way to skin a tortoise.”

            Despite what you’ve read on the interwebs, you CAN still register off highway motorcycles for the street – even in CA! I did just last year (2012) – LEGALLY. sorry to burst your bubble.

            “Every other” manufacturer has copied your 400+ pound shaft driven boxer motor street bike? LMAO! Are you still living in the 80’s? Who exactly? Hate to break it to ya, but those modern (adventure) bikes you mentioned are extremely rare in the desert, and only the highly skilled would even consider taking them “off road.” Fire roads don’t count either.

            Please, just stick to the mileage crunching on the highways and Starbuck parking lots! HAHAHA!

            Just kidding, I like vintage bikes! Really!

             
          • Pedro December 11, 2013 at 11:35 pm #

            DT,
            Dude, the very first motorcycles were “dual sport” as the roads sucked or didn’t exist. Heck, even Hondas Trail 90 beats you by a decade or two.
            This pilot program requires license and insurance and as Bishop is talking about using it for more state enforcement grants, they probably won’t pass up ticketing.l

             
          • Desert Tortoise December 12, 2013 at 4:11 pm #

            No one was building dedicated dual sport bikes with saddlebags and big fuel tanks that were good off road and on the highway until they saw how many G/Ss BMW was selling. Before that people made do with smaller and less capable single cylinder enduros with limited range and very little luggage capacity, or they did the best they could off road with a street bike. BMW, who has a long history in off road racing (ISDT teams going back long before the first G/S model was conceived, and there was this thing called WWII before that) developed the idea that a bike can be as good on road for touring as off road, and purpose built bikes for that kind of use. No motorcycle manufacturer had hung hard luggage on an off road bike until the first G/S.

            I will admit that something the size and weight of a Super Tenere intimidates me off road but I know guys who race things like that or the big GS. But that old R80G/S with a stouter fork and shock is every bit as good off road as any of the 650 singles with a bit more power than the 650’s (more still if you replace the 800 cc barrels and pistons with 1000 cc parts which is cheap and easy to do) and less weight (409 lbs fully fueled) unless you go for the 8.45 gallon tank (which I save for special occasions where the extra fuel is required). There are very good reasons why the original G/S is so hard to find and cost so much when you do. Not sexy, but durable and reliable.
            One of my Beemers has covered 293K miles in 29 years of ownership and it has never once stranded me anywhere.

             
        • Mark December 11, 2013 at 4:51 pm #

          Desert Tortoise – Mammoth M/C and others in the know still have a way to street legal dirtbikes. There is a path that allows you to walk into DMV with a green sticker dirtbike and walk out with street legal plates. I did just this with my 2007 Honda CRF450X. The only bummer is now I have to have liablity insurance.

          My other three dirtbikes and UTV I have registered has OHV’s in Nevada to avoid Caifornia using my green sticker funds to help FOI and the USFS to close off dirt roads in California. As Mammoth M/C said the green sticker program is a fraud.

          I recommend everyone registering their dirtbikes in Nevada to screw California out of their green sticker fraud program.

           
          • Bomber December 11, 2013 at 7:00 pm #

            All these federal and state agencies are taking as much as They can, They know They are living on Borrowed Time Now. Another quick bite of info, 22 million federal and state employee’s. What are these people going to do in a economic collapse & govt. collapse? The majority of government workers have no skills 🙂

             
          • Desert Tortoise December 12, 2013 at 11:47 am #

            Read:

            http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/files/off-highway%20motorcycle%20conversions%20vin%202003-11.pdf

            If it was manufactured after 1977 and was not manufactured to meet street requirements it cannot be registered for the street. The rules changed in 2003.

             
  6. Mark December 10, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

    If the person that wrote the article and whomever came up with the park staging area idea new anything about OHV’ers they would know the park isn’t an area they would want to stage in.

    They actually want a place to camp, have a camp fire and enjoy getting out of their city. And that place isn’t the Bishop City Park. My SoCal friends seem to be partial to Mill Pond. Others perfer areas that allow dispersed camping.

    But none would ever consider staging at Bishop City Park.

    The park might work for a duel sport ride, but that group as someone mentioned is legal to ride on any highway without this Adventure Trails project.

    Add loud music from cars with windows rolled down to my disturbing the peace list.

     
  7. sugar magnolia December 10, 2013 at 3:24 pm #

    I’m happy to see Bishop catering to the OHV crowd. Develop a space for them out Millpond way or elsewhere. just keep them away from Mono County!

     
  8. Wayne Deja December 10, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

    Daniel Pritchett…..Everything you say is 100 % correct….plus lots of other negatives this is going to bring onto city streets,city parks,quiet neighborhoods,among other things….but with the support it has gotten by some that see it as an increase in the all-mighty $$$ to the area….which isn’t going to be nearly as much as some think it will do…there is little those of us that think it’s a bad idea,or oppose it can do about it…except saying I TOLD YOU SO shortly after the “trails” are set up and running….The thing that is going to effect and hinder the most…IMO…..is how it will effect and tax Law Enforcement trying to control the situations these off-roaders from So Cal will bring to the areas….just like it did in the Lancaster-Palmdale-Littlerock-Lake Los Angeles areas back in the late 70’s-mid 80’s that I myself witnessed.Like I said before,it’s hard for Law Enforcement to tell the difference between a helmeted 25 year old licensed rider from a helmeted 13 year old unlicensed,inexperienced rider with no insurance speeding up and down the residentual streets….at all hours of the day and night…..and being from L.A.,thinking it’s O.K.to do,and not caring what the Inyo people think about it…..Within two months after this happens,I’ll be the first to comment on the problems the Sierra Wave will be reporting on……and ending each post with a big “all-caps” I TOLD YOU SO !!!!!…..watch and see.

     
    • Russ Monroe December 11, 2013 at 9:10 am #

      100% Wayne, really? Let’s examine that number;
      “This means after disturbing people in their homes in residential areas, Green Sticker dirt bikers could proceed to disturb people at Bishop City Park.”
      Please show me ANY line in the proposed law that says anyone will be allowed to break any current noise ordinance. Come on Wayne… where is your justification for claiming that laws will be broken by “these” people! Who are these people Wayne? Name ONE, please!
      Once again Wayne you you are blowing BS! As I have stated in response every time; every law enforcement officer that I have talked to about this is pleased at having a more enforceable standard. Enforcement issues around Lone Pine are made much more difficult by the mishmash of laws and regulations caused by one side of the road being BLM, the other side being Forest Service, and ten feet later it may be DW&P private land. The same dirt road may be allow OHV on one spot then ten feet later it may not. This proposal gives us locals a chance to sort out the stupidity and clear up the idiotic chaos of conflicting regulations so that local, visitor, and law enforcement will have clear rules to follow, and a better experience for each.
      “Like I said before,it’s hard for Law Enforcement to tell the difference between a helmeted 25 year old licensed rider from a helmeted 13 year old unlicensed,inexperienced rider with no insurance speeding up and down the residentual streets….at all hours of the day and night…..and being from L.A.,thinking it’s O.K.to do,and not caring what the Inyo people think about it…..”
      Yes, you have said it before, no doubt you will keep saying it, but; this proposal specifically restricts the use of the OHV accesses to DAYLIGHT HOURS ONLY! Ah but, YOU never will be confined by facts when you are writing one of your diatribes, will you, Wayne?
      How does law enforcement tell the difference between a 25 year old licensed driver and 13 year old? Doesn’t matter if they are speeding WAYNE they both will be stopped, or, are you really trying to say that law enforcement officers around here are just too ignorant to do their job?
      You are correct about one thing Wayne, an ever larger number of locals are looking forward to getting to say “I told you so” in your face. I can hardly wait myself.

       
      • Desert Tortoise December 11, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

        No rider in Ridgecrest is permitted to break noise regulations, but they routinely do, sometimes on the lot right next to your house. Legal? No, but they do not care and the police seem to feel they have bigger fish to fry than to worry about motocross and non street legal enduros tearing up and down residential streets endangering people’s children on their bicycles.

         
      • Wayne Deja December 11, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

        Russ….Oh,gosh no,I’m not saying Law Enforcement isn’t doing their job now,or if they happen to see the 13 year old or the 25 year old unlicensed speeders zipping through the streets or HWY.395 at night….or daytime,I’m sure they will stop them,and issue a warning or citation….but I know of some that,if your on a dirt bike…..when that happens,when the blue-lights come on behind you,it’s time to hit the dirt or speed away on the pavement untill the dirt is available to hit…I know cause,back in the olden Antelope Valley days of mine,I did it…..and if one is to do a background check on me,they would notice no citations for eluding on my record.I don’t like the thought of a dirt-biker,maybe intoxicated,burning the residential streets or HWY. 395 untill they can get back into the desert.,putting Law Enforcement and the rest of us in danger…or thinking all Law Enforcement has to deal with is keeping their eyes out for these So Cal riders and making sure they are obeying the laws,or not causing trouble.Like Desert Tortoise says in the post below,THAT is how it will turn out…..if it brings the L.A. people here to ride much,and spend their $$$….which it ain’t going to do anyway.I’m not against most of the locals,such as yourself,getting to and from their homes and into town…but the out-of-towners,they will be the ones that will be pushing the buttons and soon finding out what they can and can’t get away with,like Desert Tortotise says,and hoping Law Enforcement doesn’t just throw their hands up in the air,like it sounds they have maybe done in Ridgecrest ….but that is IF…..a BIG if,these L.A. “guy-guys” even want to try to turn the Owens Valley and the surrounding prestine areas up here into a dirt-bike mecca or a race track….which I don’t think is going to happen….not enough taverns and party-spots….and if Law Enforcement does clamp down hard on the ones that don’t obey the laws,just another reason they won’t choose this area to do their thing….I guess we can agree to dis-agree…..but I still think your a cool guy !!!

         
        • Pedro December 11, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

          WD,
          Speeding truckers, drunk tailgating skiers in SUVs, and the size of local pickups ought to eliminate the idiots pretty quickly.

           
  9. Charles O. Jones December 10, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    Inyo County Supes??
    Why would they have any jurisdiction over the streets within the city of Bishop?

    That aside, maybe a trial period should be considered. Then allow the voters of Bishop decide at the conclusion of the trial period.

     
    • liberal larry December 11, 2013 at 8:29 am #

      We the People are finally starting to realize how much power our elected officials have. Most are businessmen who are in it for themselves and their cronies, can do an amazing amount of corrupt damage before they are voted out (4 years?), and they know it.

      We must be more active in holding our elected officials’ feet to the fire.

       
  10. Russ Monroe December 10, 2013 at 5:00 pm #

    Shocking discovery: “the Trails program won’t open any new back country areas”!
    Gosh, opening new areas is not part of the proposal, neither was ocean sports fishing, why didn’t you bring that up too? It’s just as irrelevant?
    You also failed to include in your propagandizing diatribe the fact that locals get to use the machines too. In fact Daniel…. locals initiated this. The vast majority of people that I have talked to about this proposal, after they read it, are in favor of having routes OUT of town so that they can recreate from their homes without having to trailer-up for one or two miles.
    Yes, this will be a positive asset for visitors as well. Yes, as others have brought to your attention, the vehicles involved are muffled and have many other restrictions as well.
    Personally I am embarrassed for you. In the past you have at least tried to bring up rational arguments in your letters. This one is highly biased and generally inaccurate.
    I suggest that you might benefit from reading the proposal, listening to your neighbors, and even perhaps consider others opinions before you write again.
    I do not own an OHV Daniel, but if this proposal comes to fruition I will, and I will use it to commute to and from Lone Pine, at reasonable speeds, quietly, at 100 miles to a gallon instead of 15. Oh, but suddenly the the green aspect of this proposal is irrelevant to you?
    Given your past hard line writings; your position on this proposal seems more than a bit hypocritical, sir.

     
  11. ferdinand lopez December 10, 2013 at 6:41 pm #

    just dont run over any old cans,lots of $$$$ in off road segment

     
  12. John Barton December 10, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

    Daniel– You live on Hanby right next to Yaney St behind the park. From having attended many soccer games in those fields adjacent to your home I am qualified to state that the noise generated by regular noisy cars and trucks going right in front of your house is already much, much louder than what the OHV groups will ever be.

     
  13. John Harris December 10, 2013 at 9:57 pm #

    I live on Hanby and I couldn’t be more thrilled that Bishop and the Owens Valley is allowing OHV riders to come into town. Mr Pritchett certainly does not speak for all the Hanby owners and I strongly dispute most of his personal opinions he has expressed here.

     
  14. Bishop Native December 10, 2013 at 10:10 pm #

    As an off road enthusiast myself, I am happy with the number of riders on the trails now. Do we really want Coyote to be the next Jawbone Canyon? This program is really about bringing in LA riders to increase business for a few places such as Golden State Cycle and Schat’s. It takes about 10 minutes to get my bike in my truck and be out the driveway so access to trails for locals is not a legitimate argument. One also has to wonder how happy locals living on the periphery of town will be to have their weekends filled with noise of increased OHV activity. In the end, most locals will be the losers in the Adventure Trails Program.

     
    • Mark December 11, 2013 at 7:21 am #

      I have to question how many people will want to drive the 120 miles further pass Jawbone to come to Bishop?

      I don’t think we’re going to see the increase in OHV’ers that you think.

      Just my opinion.

       
      • Russ Monroe December 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm #

        I think you are correct Mark. I can see one of the most used campgrounds in southern Inyo from my house. I talk to many of the OHV and other equipment riders all the time. The vast majority of the riders here are, and have been for a long time, as old as I am. I have seen very few “violators” in the past decade or so and the two I remember were both locals, both were appropriately dealt with by local law enforcement. The changes proposed here will impact a only a small number of riders, but the changes will make a lot of sense for locals and visitors alike. The great hordes of moto-racers have no interest in the mixed use areas with all of the legal restrictions we already have in place. The panic speculators are all basing their arguments on other places and times.
        I remember all too well, driving through Stovepipe Wells after some mental midgets raced through the Devils Cornfield. Horrible abuse! But that was the 1960s… this isn’t. The Devils Cornfield has almost healed, but still has no fence around it. The park has even less people to enforce the law now yet the problem hasn’t repeated itself. The assumption that every criminal in civilization will run here because they no longer have to trailer up for a mile is paranoid delusion at minimum.

         
        • Mammoth M/C December 11, 2013 at 4:20 pm #

          Bring up old stuff much?
          Besides, when was the last time you visited the Race Track playa? Sorry to disappoint you, but the “problem” HAS repeated itself. You’ll find tire tracks all across the racetrack playa and evidence of idiots spinning donuts, etc.

          …the thing is, the abusers aren’t motorcycles & quads… It’s your average car, SUV and truck driving idiot.

          Just like this guy Daniel Pratchett, and his ranting on and on about dirtbike noise – all along forgetting the real noise makers.

          Tell me, why is everyone so happy to jump on the band wagon and point fingers at OHV use? Is it ignorance? Attention?

           
      • Charles O. Jones December 11, 2013 at 5:11 pm #

        @Mark

        How many people drive all the way to Mammoth just to ski or fish? I would expect to see quite a few people willing to drive the extra distance. Especially considering the places further south are ridiculously crowded already.

         
        • Mark December 12, 2013 at 9:45 am #

          One’s choices to ski and fish are much more limited then OHV’ers choices to ride off road. You probably drive by the Jawbone Canyon store and see the placed packed and think the entire area is just as crowded. Well that’s not the case at all, the area East of the 14 and East of 395 (Spangler) is wide open empty. There’s also Cuddyback out in that same direction.

          There is also dispersed camping and OHV trails due North out of Mojave and West of Mojave.

          Some of these OHV’ers might make a trip to Bishop once a year, I know my friends do.

          If they want to stay at a location where they can ride into town there is Cal City, and Randsburg for a beer and a burger.

          then there’s the sand dune crowd that goes to Glamis, Dunmont and Pismo Beach.

          My list could go on, but I think i’ve made my point.

           
          • Charles O. Jones December 12, 2013 at 6:40 pm #

            Randsburg, Glamis, Pismo, Jawbone, Redrock/Dove Springs, Red Mountain, El Mirage, the list goes on and I’ve ridden all of them in the past. All very crowded IMO. I think it would be naive to expect little impact to the Bishop area from this proposed change. Whether one thinks those impacts would be good or bad is another story.

             
    • Wayne Deja December 11, 2013 at 10:41 am #

      Bishop Native……If I were you,not to worry much…this “Adventure Trails System” isn’t going to bring in the “millions of dollars per Summer weekend” that poster claimed it would with his comical post a few months back.The So Calers aren’t going to make a 250-300 mile b-line from L.A. to have a small town ,a Carls Jr.,and a cycle shop their main destination to ride.Most dirt-bikers and OHV riders prefer the desert areas to ride,party,drink and tail-gate,and screw up those areas like they have with,like you mentioned,Jawbone Canyon,Cal City,and like back in the 80’s,Lake Los Angeles,the outskirts of Lancaster,Palmdale and Quartz Hill.The only traffic the city streets will have much of is the intoxicated riders making their beer-runs to the local quick-stop markets to get back to their parties…..and hitting the local bar-scene in the evenings up intill 2 A.M.or so,depending if some of them get “lucky” or not…As far as the locals,and their wanting to take advantage of the trail system to get into town…to save money on gas,or enjoy a quiet ride,all I can say to that is….Come on,man !!……you can do that NOW….. I know many people in my town that does it,and has been doing it,for as long as I’ve lived here with no citations or much problems from Law Enforcement….unless they’re doing something stupid to warrant a traffic stop…Just wait….it’s coming…..I TOLD YOU SO !!!!!

       
  15. Mark December 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

    It wasn’t the OHV’ers that screwed up the Antelope valley. It was all the section 8 housing.

    Do not go East of the 14 freeway in the Antelope Valley you will get raped, robbed, or murdered.

     
    • Wayne Deja December 11, 2013 at 4:16 pm #

      Mark….Not just East of HWY 14……..Quartz Hill too…used to be a nice,quiet little suburb of Lancaster or Palmdale…..not anymore….go up to Quartz Hill Mountain now,unless that too has been developed,park your car and look at the Antelope Valley lights at night,and a good chance you’ll end up robbed,duct-taped to a post,and end up walking out without a vehicle…..if your lucky !!

       
    • Shine December 11, 2013 at 9:53 pm #

      Don’t blame mosquito for stagnant pond. Section 8 vouchers can be accepted by owners or not. Friend got into nice Santa Monica neighborhood with voucher after passing same rigid screening as other tenants. Slumlords and unwise investors accepting undesirable tenants to profit or cover their ass are the real welfare freeloaders. Section 8 undesirables were attracted by AV blight, but didn’t start it.

       
  16. Desert Tortoise December 11, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

    Exaggerate much. I have been doing business and shopping down there for many years with no problems. I own two properties east of Hwy 14 in Lancaster and they are in the nicest townhouse complex in the valley. There are lots of very nice properties in Lancaster on both sides of that freeway.

     
    • Mark December 11, 2013 at 3:48 pm #

      I’m not exaggerating at all, I dare you to go out after dark. .

      Someone broke in and beat a 60 year old man to death in Palmdale Saturday night. Two armed home invasions in Lancaster the night before.

      The list goes on just read the Antelope Valley Times on line.

      Palmdale has the hispanic gangs, Lancaster has the black gangs. Between 10 p.m to 4 a.m. local LEO’s are to busy to do anything but go from one felony call to another.

       
      • Desert Tortoise December 12, 2013 at 9:25 am #

        I walk my dog at night with my fiancee through Lancaster neighborhoods in the vicinity of 10th St. East/Challenger Bl. over to 15 East and between J and K almost every weekend and have never had a problem. I patronize shopping in that area all the time. Superior Grocers on 10 East and J has the best produce prices and quality I can find. I patronize the shopping at 10 East and K and 10 East and J all the time. The dollar stores at 10E and J are where I buy toys for my doggie to demolish.

        Your understanding of Lancaster is highly biased.

         
        • Mark December 12, 2013 at 10:20 am #

          Highly biased 🙂 Yes, I know a little bit about it, probably from living there for 50 years.

          They had an arsonist catch the linen isle on fire at the Walmart on East Ave J just last week. There was a couple shootings there last week also. 8 years ago my friend was shot while driving thrue the Tel Taco drive on East Ave J.

          It is now illegal to ride a green sticker vehicle anywhere in L..A. county other then a designated OHV areas such as Rower Flats, Little Rock Dam, or your own property. There is a L.A. County Sheriff off road enforcement team which is a group of eight deputies riding dual sport bikes that consentrate their enforcement efforts in areas they get the most complaints. Which are Acton, Anna Verde, and Juniper Hills.

          The pay of a Los Angeles County Sheriffs Sergeant on OHV duty is $95.32 per hour or $762.56 for only one 8 hour shift. Many of the residents in the Antelope Valley would consider this amount very generous for a weeks pay. It is unconscionable that this amount of money is paid for this duty out of OHV funds.

           
        • Wayne Deja December 12, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

          Desert Tortoise….I used to live in Lancaster for 29 years….from 1962….when it was a quiet LITTLE place to live…. thru 1991..when the people from L.A. were coming and the area went to pot…..Since I’ve been in the Owens Valley,I’ve gone down there just a few times in 13+ years,and can’t even recognize the place or find where I used to live without problems navigating into the area….What some are saying is true…I used to walk home from AVHS on Lancaster Blvd.,wouldn’t do that now…..used to go bowling in the evening on the same Blvd.,and walk home after 8 P.M….wouldn’t do that now either…..Recently,they had a murder at the park-and-ride off of Ave.S…..The kidnapping,assault and rape of two girls up on Quartz Hill Mountain…a recent rash of home-invasions and burglaries..car-jackings..shootings..a couple dead bodies of young teen-age boys found in the Pearblossom area…lots of gang problems….The last time I spent the night there,I stayed at a motel on Sierra Hwy.,and had hookers coming by my room asking if I “needed anything”….it’s NOT a nice place…..and should make us ALL realize how good we got it living up here….

           
    • Mark December 11, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

      and btw, the Antelope Valley sheriff station is the busiest station in Los Angeles county. They are over 350 tags a day.

      and now I have gotten so far off topic I had to scroll up to see what area I was posting this in. Enough of the A.V. down South.

       
      • Desert Tortoise December 12, 2013 at 9:28 am #

        The sheriffs manufacture a “crime wave”. They initiate stops so they can show a contact on their data base, even if the person being stopped didn’t do anything wrong. I am one of those statistics btw, in San Diego County however, where a deputy stopped and friked me for walking down the street to work. He could not believe I was actually walking to work, searched me and my bag, rifled through my wallet, took my money out of my pocket. Yep, real crime wave. I wasn’t doing anything wrong at all but I became a crime statistic the San Diego County Sheriff uses to jusfity even more oppressive “law enforcement”. The same is true of the LASD in the Antelope Valley. They create a “crime wave” up there to protect their jobs, and fools like you buy their line of BS.

         
        • Mark December 12, 2013 at 10:29 am #

          “searched me and my bag, rifled through my wallet, took my money out of my pocket.”

          Desert Tortoise PLEASE exercise your constitutional rights regarding illegal search if that ever happens again.

          You do not have to show id or allow them to search if you’re just walking down the street.

          Sounds like you experienced the Police State Tactics people are complaining about all over the Country.

           
          • Desert Tortoise December 12, 2013 at 11:52 am #

            I did. I sued the officers and the department and lost. They trotted out their “data” showing all the stops they “have” to make in my neighborhood, claimed that someone had called about a prowler earlier in the neighborhood and used that as their excuse to jack me up. The judge believed every word of it, even though I had people in the court room applauding me. Reminding the deputies of Lawson v Kolender and the Supreme Court disallowing police from demanding ID got me nothing but derision from the deputies and the judge.

             
          • Mark December 12, 2013 at 12:50 pm #

            DT – That’s disgusting but believable.
            If someone called about a prowler they would have a record of the call and the dispatch.

            Just because someone reported a prowler doesn’t mean you’re a suspect unless you matched a description. It doesn’t give them free reign to violate everyone’s rights in the area.

            I’m really starting to go from law enforcement supporter to law enforcement hater.

             
  17. Wayne Deja December 13, 2013 at 9:00 am #

    Mark….You have to see it through the eyes of Law Enforcement too…..If there is a report of a prowler,or a report of a crime,and when they come upon the scene and happen to see someone walking in the area of the report,I’m doubting the person that was maybe the culperit would identify himself as who they might be looking for,or maybe the suspect.Suspect descriptions are almost always very vague….When I was robbed at gunpoint up in Oregon back in 1995,when the Police arrived I couldn’t even let them know what he was wearing,besides the black mask with the eye-holes….maybe too much attention on the barrel of the pistol pointed my way to notice the color of his pants or the type of shirt he was wearing..It seems if your a Law Enforcement officer and your arriving at the scene of a crime report,just maybe someone in the area is either a suspect or a witness to the crime….if your just a witness,or a bystander,you got nothing to worry about.You can’t blame LEO for being cautious or suspicious….IMO….

     
    • Mark December 13, 2013 at 9:35 am #

      I agree Wayne, but without knowing there was an actually report of a prolwer I’m accusing LEO’s of making that stuff up just so they can violate citizens rights.

      It happens all the time

      I had a cop tell me just last night he and his co-worker duputies were warriors. I told him he was a public servant and an Adam Henry.

       
      • Wayne Deja December 13, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

        Mark….I agree with you.. some are bad-apples….I’ve had to deal with a couple that were way out of line with me….and over-stepping their boundries…… Long ago,I once knew a Sheriff in the Antelope Valley that told me the reason he chose that profession was to “maybe someday legally blow someone away”……the good thing is most of LE are good people.

         
        • Pedro December 14, 2013 at 2:11 am #

          Original meaning of bad apples was that one threatened the whole supply and should be removed. As long as police protect their rotten coworkers they are all tainted. I once helped a drunk driver who ran off road and wrecked in remote area get medical help. Driver called cops on way to hospital and said I was trying to loot their car. Learned one could go from witness to suspect in zero flat. Had more than one experience like that and most often cops were complete dicks. Cops think they are hammer and everyone else is nail. No wonder lawyers tell you to never talk to cops period, and no wonder no one wants to do the right thing.

           

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