What happened to Rovana Cross?


We received the following comment and included photo.  If anyone knows anything about the fate of the old Rovana cross, would you please comment.  Here is the Question we received from Steve Krafcheck:

“I drove up to Rovana today to see my old neighborhood.  I grew up there when the Union Carbide mine was operating.  I noticed the old cross on top of the hill that overlooks Rovana is gone.  I climbed the hill to see if it was just pushed over.  Nope, not a trace of it remains.  The cross was there about two months ago during my last visit to the area.  Did anybody ever report this?”


97 Responses to What happened to Rovana Cross?

  1. enoughalready February 19, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

    Just a hunch…..
    The CHP officers wife over in Paradise that has been spying on people in Round Valley and then sicking her husband on them. She decided that the Cross was inappropriate and soured the view in her spotting scope. The Cross therefore must to be remove.
    So …..Cross be gone!
    If you go out to Rovana to check it out you will be ID’d and photographed and have your Rights violated. Just a little warning

    • Victory February 20, 2013 at 9:52 am #


      • Baggn4life February 20, 2013 at 4:14 pm #

        @EnoughAlready: I live nearby, although not in the village. I don’t know anything about a whacky, spying CHP wife. I have never been asked for my ID, or otherwise had my rights violated. I didn’t realize the cross was missing, but my guess would be vandals.
        Do we really have a nutty lady spying on people? I can’t imagine how the cross would affect the view from Paradise to Round Valley or Rovana. With Paradise NW of aforementioned, and the coss South, there is no possible way for the cross to obstruct the view. Am I missing something?

        • Big Rick OBrien February 20, 2013 at 10:18 pm #

          It’s called SARCASM,Baggn.. You must have missed the earlier tidbit about…

  2. Big AL February 19, 2013 at 8:55 pm #

    You could play out a few scenarios here … enough, I doubt that it was that chick. But you never know, could be the God haters, or someone wanted it like they wanted the rock art, or someone like you who grew up there, but doesn’t share the same scruples as you do.

    • Randerson February 20, 2013 at 10:56 am #

      I believe it was relocated hills on the north side of Rovana, or was rumored to be. I have yet to spot it. About 16 years ago I buried my beloved childhood pet cat close to that cross, and it always served as a reminder of her. I thought the cross was there for the children who died in Pine Creek. I wonder how their family feels about the cross being moved! And for the CHP comment above I am glad someone is watching over Rovana! But they could do a better job of it! I lived there last year and watched as some drunkard on a dirt bike set the hill on fire by the water tank. My husband got it put out right as the fire crews got there. Did anyone get arrested? no! If It was not for my husband Rovana would be just a black spot on the hill. We moved shortly after!

    • Heavy critique February 20, 2013 at 1:01 pm #

      Whoa, Big Al!

      “Someone like you?” …

      Pretty stiff indictment there – don’t ya think?

      • Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:11 pm #

        Nice try Dr. Facts!

    • Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:12 pm #

      But I wanted to clear up I didn’t mean to say you enough … as in someone like you, I meant to say someone like you who grew up there, but who had no scruples.
      Ughh that didn’t sound like it was meant.

    • It's in the style February 21, 2013 at 7:26 am #

      “God-Haters” Big Al?
      My, my – how you like to bandy the word “hate” around when disagreeing with a posting.
      Don’t you think others are wise to that sort of “debate?”
      I think if people want that style of debate, they’ll just lisen to Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck.

      • Big AL February 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm #

        I think you like to bandy it around … Dr. Facts I did not portray that scenario as I should have, but there are those who do hate God, and those that don’t believe in God or any deity, for that matter. Some people in these groups will remove such a cross.

        But that is a different “debate”.

        If people want that sort of debate, it seems you will give them what they want. I don’t debate, I only endeavor to show the truth.

  3. Joe February 20, 2013 at 11:16 am #

    I don’t see the Star of David or a tribute to Mohammad either. If that cross was on public land, it should have been removed. People of all faiths (and atheists) have fought and died for this country, therefore any religious symbols representing any particular faith should be removed. Separation of church and state is just as important as the 2nd Amendment (and other Amendments of the Constitution). It’s not a matter of “God Hater”, big Al, it’s a matter of upholding the foundations this country was founded upon. If the cross was on private party, I hope it is found and accounted for.

    • Tourbillon February 20, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

      The Ten Commandments are on the walls of the Supreme Court.

      Congress opens session with a prayer.

      The President swears to uphold the Constitution with his hand on the Bible.

      These things are not unconstitutional because the First Amendment does not say “religion must be expunged from the public square”. It simply states that Congress cannot make a law establishing a state religion, or preventing the free exercise of any religion. The Supreme Court itself has recognized, ruefully, that its jurisprudence in this area, having departed from the simple prohibition as to what Congress shall not do, is murky and eccentric.

      • You know the type, you know... February 20, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

        Tourbillon –

        Just curious.

        Ever spend any time in Utah?

        • Tourbillon February 20, 2013 at 9:44 pm #

          I’ve been in Utah and I liked it, although I am not a Mormon. I have also been to many other places you could not identify on a map if they were pointed out to you. What’s your point, Scooter?

          • Symbolism v Substance February 21, 2013 at 6:38 am #

            Tourbillon –
            Whoa there Red Ryder. Don’t bust a vein.
            Just noticed your quips sound more than vaguely like those from the most hyper-conservative area on that map you are referring to. Utahns believe the more flags you own, the better American you are.
            Utahns also have their ears glued toThe Rush Limbaugh Show during their lunch breaks and believe people from our very liberal state, California, are of the Devil.- (and I’m not kidding).

      • Joe February 20, 2013 at 4:25 pm #

        Tourbillon- As matter of facts, the 10 commandments and Moses are not prominently displayed on the Supreme Court (SC) walls and separationists have not made a big issue out of this. It is more decorational as the 10 commandments relate to early law history, NOT judicial governance of those using the facilities, The SC buiilding was built in 1935 so it’s a matter of speculation of whether the Founding Fathers would have approved of this in the first place. Same with currency: In God We Trust was only relatively recently printed on currency and the Pledge of Allegiance also only incorporated “God” relatively recently. Presidents, may place a hand on any book or none at all. Teddy Roosevelt did not take the oath on the Bible.

      • Eastern Sierra Local February 22, 2013 at 8:50 am #

        Actually “Tourbillion” the Supreme Court DOES NOT have the 10 commandments on the walls. In an interview with the designer of the freise on both the doors and behind the Justices he stated that they represent the first 10 amendments to Constitution AKA “The Bill of Rights.” Look it up.

    • One, true, American religion? February 20, 2013 at 1:24 pm #

      Good one, Joe.
      We’re seeing another saga of those White/ Anglo-Saxon/Protestants believing there is only “one, true, religion.” And the belief that America should espouse their belief only.
      Sometimes its subtle. Sometimes its an in-your-face thing.

      • Jeremiah's stance February 20, 2013 at 4:45 pm #

        Hey whats up y’all, My kind of debate. I fully agree with Joe on “People of all faiths have fought and died for this country” and no one religion should out weigh the other, especially in law or legislative form. (A big reason why I will never support the right’s stance on marriage, abortion and any other belief that is based out of a single religion.)
        Then Tourbillon’s last paragraph has me thinking??
        Religion always been a prime player in decisions and the justification to certain circumstances in the foundation of this Country. But like the founders stressed over and over, the LIBERTY to be able to choose is a equal right.
        I personally feel ones religion can help people proceed in any given situation with confidence, if they genuinely believe in the powers they are reaching out to. But then again I also believe in the placebo affect.
        I Know if I was ever given the opportunity to be sworn in to office (chuckles to himself) I would put my hand on a Webster’s Dictionary since that is something a majority of us can agree upon.

      • Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:24 pm #

        Way to spread the hate Dr. Facts

    • Baggn4life February 20, 2013 at 4:22 pm #

      @Joe: Seriously? I suppose all the churches, temples, and synagogues should be removed from “public” streets. Exactly what is so threatening about a cross? We all need a little more tolerance.

    • Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:20 pm #

      No I totally get what you’re saying Joe, I should have phrased that better, but the cross stands for everyone, Christians, Jewish, Atheists, Islamic, if you really think about it. God loves everyone and does not recognize religion, religion is only man’s hang up in how one perceives it.

    • Big Rick OBrien February 20, 2013 at 10:44 pm #

      Hey Joe, say it ain’t so…there are THOUSANDS of crosses along the highways of this great nation. Some of them have been there for decades AND they are on public land. If someone was to be inclined to climb a mountain and plant a Cross, Star of David, Buddah, whatever…I’ve got no problem with it. Some people are just wired to destroy anything artistic or creative. I myself, put a marker that I hand- carved on the grave of Rosa May in the Bodie cemetery in 1999 and it was in place for over 11 years before somebody stole it. THAT is about as low as you can get.

  4. MJA February 20, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

    Crosses are symbols of human torture and quite horrific and morbid to me.
    I would like to see them all gone.


    • A different point of view February 20, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

      The Christian cross, seen as a representation of the instrument of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, is the best-known religious symbol of Christianity.It is related to the crucifix (a cross that includes a usually three-dimensional representation of Jesus’ body) and to the more general family of cross symbols.

      However, in the Mormon faith, (which believes it is entirely Christian) the cross can be seen nowhere.

      So, now what?

      • Joe February 21, 2013 at 9:37 am #

        @ a different point– I agree and that was the point I was trying to make. It becomes a very slippery slope because other faiths would want to display their own symbols and heaven forbid if one symbol was displayed in front of another or had the best location etc.

    • Trouble February 20, 2013 at 6:36 pm #

      MJA- I doubt the people that put it there were thinking that way.

    • Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:31 pm #

      You’re totally wrong as I see it MJA, that is only how you perceive it to be, what gives your perception right to remove it?

      Like anything in life, if you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see. Religion and the evil in man’s heart is what has done such things as you perceive, not God, and not those who do good.

      So you say you want them all gone, how is that right over mine to see them there?

      • Jeremiah's stance February 21, 2013 at 10:18 am #

        @Baggn4life that’s right! we do need more tolerance towards each other! How did it go @Writer with many names? remember one of the definitions of Liberal? “Tolerance to those beliefs that differ from there own”!
        @Big Al to each’s own! just don’t tread on me! Right?

      • Hijacking words for political reasons February 21, 2013 at 10:33 am #

        “…you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see.” preaches Big Al.

        Is this why those who disagree with you Big Al are labled “full of hatred.?”

        • Big AL February 21, 2013 at 4:02 pm #

          Whoaw there Dr. Red Rider .. where did I label someone full of hate because they disagree with me or anyone else?

          “…WHEN you only see the evil, and you believe evil, then that is all you see.”

          Tell me, how is that labeling someone as evil, and where did I say someone is disagreeing with me in that statement?

          Why is it you are so miserable? At least it seems to me you are. To constantly bring forth so much junk against people.

          “Misery loves company”. When all you see is misery, and you resign yourself to that misery, then that is all you know, and one has to bring others into that company.

          I think your message Dr. Facts is valid, but lost in the junk and misery.

      • Joe February 21, 2013 at 11:35 am #

        Al- Remember the expression “a few rotten apples ruin the barrel”? The problem is enough people take their beliefs way too seriously that it creates for violence and intolerance of others’ beliefs. Why can’t people enjoy their symbols on their own property or place of worship?

        • Big AL February 21, 2013 at 4:20 pm #

          Yeah I hear ya Joe, yes. I know, it’s a paradox, because either way you offend someone. Some people do take it too far on both sides or all views, you’re right.

          Just a thought here, it is like gun control, some people want to control guns, others want to take away your right to own them, the latter group use the gun control angle to get a foot hold, then before you know it, you have lost your rights.

          Eventually it will be offensive to see any symbol anywhere, even hanging in your window, or on your mantel or wall in your living room, when guests come to call.

          So my right to display a symbol of my faith in my own home does not supersede someone else’s offense at seeing it, even if it is in my own home.

          My point is, why is it wrong for one and not for the other, how is your right negated by mine? I only see this like a dog chasing it’s tail and can’t quite catch it.

        • Bill February 26, 2013 at 12:57 pm #

          I find cairns offensive and intrusive to my enjoyment of the great outdoors… 😉

  5. Mark February 20, 2013 at 4:18 pm #

    I removed a cross once. Someone thought our hang gliding launch would be a good place for a cross. If the people who put it up had any idea about the area or spent any time there they would have known it’s a 30 year old plus launch site.

    I took the cross down (it was big, 10ft high) and cut it up into firewood. It kept us warm and cozy for an entire day.

    I did not remove the Rovana cross. My girlfriend says I’m going to hell for the one I did remove.

    • RandyK February 23, 2013 at 1:07 pm #

      See ya in hell buddy. Seems like that’s where anyone with a sense of humor is bound to end up.

  6. Steve K February 20, 2013 at 4:33 pm #

    Thanks for the article Benett. It looks like that old harmless cross that stood for decades, fell victim to hatred and intolerance. I guess I already knew that. Tearing down that cross reminds me a lot of the Taliban back in 2001 when they destroyed the Buddhas of Bamiyan. The reasoning is all the same.

    • Destruction of religious symbols February 21, 2013 at 11:06 am #

      Steve K –
      I’m not surprised at the mention of the Taliban, (since this is America’s #1 dangerous group that just happens to coincide with the Muslim faith). But in all fairness, and in consideration of America’s “investment” in military action upon Muslim-based communities for the last decade or so, Let’s us not forget that at during Desert Storm, to “break the backs of the Iraqi people,” and shorten the war, mosques were deliberately targeted and destroyed. Some say this unleashed a hatred for the United States that may never disappear.

    • John Barton February 21, 2013 at 11:49 am #

      Yeah Steve K, the cross also might remind people of the Spanish inquisition (not pleasant) or people being burned because they were labeled witches or people publicly ridiculed by clergy for questioning the validity of the earth being the center of the universe, the earth being flat, Adam and Eve etc etc etc. The Christian faith is not as peaceful and tolerant as you might wish to believe. Look at all various Christian churches… can’t even agree on their own faith! I agree with Joe– let’s keep religion at home and places of worship.

      • Big AL February 21, 2013 at 4:47 pm #

        John, I don’t agree, Christianity is peaceful. Religion … is dark.

        I was was watching the memorial service for Jeremy McKay, the San Bernardino county Sheriff deputy who was killed by the former LAPD officer who went off and was killing people indiscriminately.

        In that service, which involved the county of San Bernardino as his employer, involved God in the service.

        The man was a believer, and he lived his life in that light, as well as carry out his duties in the same light. The big theme in the service is God’s love and what it is to be a Christian, to try to do your best to do what is right and love your neighbor, he became a cop to do that, to make a difference is what he told his dad once.

        On the other hand, the manifesto I read that Chris Dorner left behind, was laced with self pride and hate for injustice done.

        Both men went into law enforcement to make a difference, in their words. One lost his life in the call to duty at the hands of the other who lost his mind in the rage and hate from the injustice meted out to him.

        What really stood out in my mind in the whole service, is that not once did anyone lash out at Chris Dorner or anyone else, they did not acknowledge the evil except for the fact that there is still a lot of good in the world, and there is evil. The message was God’s love and good. The family is very strong in their faith, and that is a part of their bond, that gets them through this very difficult time.

        So Christianity is not the darkness, it is the head trips that people lay on each other that is the darkness.

      • Eastern Sierra Local February 22, 2013 at 8:58 am #

        And let’s not forget how the intolerance of Christians are currently denying the rights of lesbians and gays based upon religion…..often times bringing up Leviticus as their justification; Leviticus also states that you shouldn’t eat shellfish, speak to a woman while she’s on her period, etc.

        • Trouble February 22, 2013 at 6:26 pm #

          Sierra Local- I think you’re assuming most politicians are true Christians.

          • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:08 pm #

            Amen Trouble.

        • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:07 pm #

          Again ESL .. that is religion .. not the individual Christian. Not all Christian believe in such a way about gays. And you are furthering the fire of division by continuing the rhetoric. Be part of the solution, not the problem.

  7. Big AL February 20, 2013 at 8:48 pm #

    Yes it is hate … evil that resides within the heart, but I think more on the surface it seems to be resentment and non understanding of who God is.

    No I don’t think you’re going to hell Mark .. that is just another head trip laid on people. I really don’t think God gives a rats ass if you took it down, and cut it up and yeah maybe He was like nice … it kept you warm.

    I don’t think God has the head trips for us that we lay on each other in the name of religion.

    I believe in God in my heart, and I am very ashamed of the church at times for the crap that goes on in God’s name. But just the same, the true body of Christ, which is Jesus’ ministry on earth, tries to do good, and be what we are meant to be to each other. Evil on the other hand only seeks to kill, steal and destroy.

    The body is not perfect, but then God does not expect it to be .. only He expects it to try to be the best it can be.

    I think .. go ahead and take them all down if it makes you feel better and all .. it won’t change how I feel in my heart, and in one’s heart is what matters most of all! It is only a symbol, yet for some it gives comfort and strength because it reminds one of where their strength is.

    • Jeremiah's stance February 21, 2013 at 10:21 am #

      Yeah!! What he said. . .

    • Benett Kessler February 21, 2013 at 1:10 pm #

      Talk about obsessions – you sure like to pick on Big Al.

      • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:40 pm #

        It’s OK Benett, I accept it for what it is.

    • Gender specific? February 22, 2013 at 12:51 pm #

      Why are you so sure God is a He, big Al?

      • God is a He February 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm #

        Jesus refers to God as his Father. Try reading the bible before you act like you know what’s in it.

        • Benett Kessler February 22, 2013 at 5:32 pm #

          The ancient Hebrew word for God literally means He-She.

          • Trouble February 22, 2013 at 6:01 pm #

            So your saying he’s a transvestite? Know wonder they took the cross down.

          • Benett Kessler February 22, 2013 at 6:16 pm #

            Living up to your name again.

          • Religion and shoes February 22, 2013 at 9:21 pm #

            “Religion is like a pair of shoes…..Find one that fits for you, but don’t make me wear your shoes.”
            – George Carlin

          • Tourbillon February 24, 2013 at 1:36 pm #

            In ancient Hebrew, having no vowels, the holy name is YHWH, which has been vowelized to Yahweh and then Europeanized to Jehovah. It is generally understood to mean “I am” or “I am that I am”. As such, it is gender neutral, but that is a far different meaning than “he-she”. Perhaps you are referring to another one of the many names for God?

          • Benett Kessler February 25, 2013 at 1:49 pm #

            I’ll check my source and respond ASAP. On page 698 of Albert Pike’s Morals and Dogma, he says the ineffable name of
            God can be interpreted as Hua and Hia, the personal pronouns (masculine and feminine) or He, She. Others have
            interpreted this as yin-yang or the creative force. Pike also points out that it was a common practice with the
            Talmudists to conceal secret meanings and sounds of words by transposing the letters.

      • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:11 pm #

        Well that is how I see Him .. what is the problem with that .. if you want to see Him as a Her … then go for it .. Why am I wrong for that? What makes me wrong for seeing God a s a certain gender? Why is it wrong for someone else to see God as in the way he or she sees God, it’s not wrong, it is how one views God.

        C’mon Dr. Facts answer me why I am wrong in that?

        • Thou Protest too much February 24, 2013 at 7:18 am #

          Relax Big Al.
          Have no interest in fighting with you.
          We are all entitled to our opinion and beliefs.
          That’s what liberalism is all about.

          • Benett Kessler February 24, 2013 at 10:49 am #

            That’s what open-minded intelligence is about.
            Benett Kessler

    • Religion is funny February 22, 2013 at 9:10 pm #

      Religion convinced the world that there’s an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there’s 10 things he doesn’t want you to do or else you’ll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. Because he loves you!
      – George Carlin

      • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:23 pm #

        Religion will convince you of a lot of things .. God doesn’t convince you, He only wants you to believe in Him and try to be right in life.

        You have to be secure in what you believe in your heart, if you believe in God and Jesus Christ, then be secure in that, if you don’t believe in God, and you choose to believe in Buddha, then be secure in that faith as well, if you choose to not believe in anything but this life, and that everything ends when you die, then be secure in that.

        “If you do not know who you are, the world will tell you who you are.” The world includes religion, it will tell you who you are and what you believe, if …. you are not secure in what you believe.

        So one can belittle God all they want, they can belittle Allah all they want or they can belittle atheists all they want, but that does not include the Christian or the Atheitst or the Muslim who believes in the basic rule of life, and tries to be one who loves his neighbor and accepts him or her for who they are.

  8. Ken Warner February 21, 2013 at 6:12 am #

    Unintended consequences ==

    When, in 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance changed from:

    “…one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all.”


    “…one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

    It seems that we have become more divisible.

    • Jeremiah's stance February 21, 2013 at 10:28 am #

      I agree Ken, we have become more divisible. Back when the bill of rights, declaration of independence, constitution was written, for the most part we didn’t have a choice but to come together in many ways to work together to be able to progress. Humans didn’t have the luxury of all the resources at our finger tips and be able to be so independent on the back of mother nature and resources generations after us will need to keep up this rate of consumption.

      • Ken Warner February 21, 2013 at 9:00 pm #

        Yes. Our legal framework was written by and for people who knew how to take care of themselves and expected the same from others — ignoring the obvious contradiction of slavery for the sake of generality.

        Now there are just too many people to support that kind of individual independence and that has led us to the point of needing rules and regulations for nearly everything just to keep some sort of ordered society. And rules and regulations chafe at many and create divisions. A good example is the conflict surrounding road closures.

        It’s a complex and imperfect World. Yet it could be much, much worse. .

        • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:25 pm #

          Good points Ken

    • Church & State February 22, 2013 at 9:26 pm #

      I’m completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
      — George Carlin

  9. Trouble February 21, 2013 at 8:00 am #

    Lets not burn down the mission over a missing cross.

    • familygal February 22, 2013 at 10:19 pm #

      I just saw a wonderful cross lit up high on a hill in Bridgeport this evening! I hope it is on private property b/c it looks fantastic!

  10. The "L" word demonized February 21, 2013 at 10:37 am #

    In certain political groups, the only acceptable form of religion for America is Christianity.
    Those who say, “now wait a minute … what about the Jews, the Muslims, the Atheists?
    are unceremoniously labled “liberals” – and believe me, that is a curse word for that particular group.

    • Ken Warner February 21, 2013 at 9:03 pm #

      Atheism is not a religion. But your point is well taken.

  11. sierragrl February 21, 2013 at 1:59 pm #

    Has anyone asked the landowner if they took it down? Who is the landowner? BLM? the developer? I’m afraid I never noticed the cross so I’m not quite sure where it was….If its on BLM land, its likely they removed it…I’m not a fan of the BLM these days…completely out of control and unclear of the concept that they are stewards of the public land…not the dictator! If it’s on developer land, they could’ve removed it if they felt it was beginning to get old and be a hazard…most decisions these days are based on liability potential.

    Sorry not to play along with all the religious persecution theories here, I doubt the removal had anything to do with religion at all.

    • Big AL February 21, 2013 at 3:32 pm #

      Yeah sierragrl, I hear ya .. I only mentioned it amongst a few scenarios as to why it is missing. It could have been just really cool to someone, who knows?

      • Candy Stewart Mckinney April 23, 2014 at 9:25 pm #

        I was raised in Rovana between 1953-1969…….I lived in house 12 on Montana street, one row down from the top. We played on that mountain all year long..going from “cracked rock” over to “The cross”. We were always told that settlers put the cross up when finished crossing the Sierra Mountains into the valley known as Rovana now…to remember those lost on the journey.

  12. Jeremiah's stance February 21, 2013 at 9:36 pm #

    Enough already! !
    Geez Big Al, you forget to state you are the same decaying organic material as the rest of us and your words/text is only your opinion and not the word of God.

    • The Christian Right February 22, 2013 at 6:35 am #

      Christian right is a term used in the United States to describe right-wing Christian political groups that are characterized by their strong support of socially conservative policies. Christian conservatives principally seek to apply their understanding of the teachings of Christianity to politics and public policy by proclaiming the value of those teachings and/or by seeking to use those teachings to influence law and public policy.

      In the U.S., the Christian right is an informal coalition formed around a core of white evangelical Protestants that draws “support from politically conservative Catholics, Jews, Mormons, and occasionally secularists” who share their goals. The movement has its roots in American politics going back as far the 1940s and has been especially influential since the 1970s. Their influence draws, in part, from grassroots activism as well as their focus on social issues and ability to motivate the electorate around those issues]

      The Christian right is notable for advancing socially conservative positions on issues including school prayer, stem cell research, homosexuality, contraception, abortion, and pornography.

    • Trouble February 22, 2013 at 7:27 am #

      Strike him down for that big Al!

    • Trouble February 22, 2013 at 10:33 pm #

      I think Jeremiah’s saying your right up there with a organic radish Big Al???

      • Jeremiah's stance February 25, 2013 at 11:51 am #

        @Trouble What I am saying is nobody should feel Superior when it comes to Religion and their beliefs, since no Religion is immune to the cycle of life and Earths Natural ways!
        I guess in a fantasy world Big Al can be a Organic Produce product, so then that must make you a Genetically Modified food additive in pink slime.

        • Big AL February 26, 2013 at 12:27 am #

          Where did I say it was superior Jerry? And I don’t get the comparison of ones faith and caring for the earth. They both are very important to me, if you are not a believer then that is cool, that is your thing, I have never said you have to be.

    • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:31 pm #

      OH wait a minute Jerry .. I never said I was God or speak for Him … where did that come from? Yes it is my thoughts and beliefs, God’s word is in the bible. I know I am only dust in the wind, here today and gone tomorrow. But when I am gone, and am absent from the body, to be absent from the Body, is to be with the Father, that is my believe according to what I have learned in this life. What is wrong with that?

      • Jeremiah's stance February 25, 2013 at 11:46 am #

        Well to me you where getting carried away, by way of telling the gentlemen “No I don’t think you are going to Hell Mark” and all the other stuff you have been conditioned to believe and stand for.
        I mean I respect Religion and what it stands for but when it comes down to people fight over who’s God is the best It defeats all purpose of believing!
        You may have very strong beliefs and that Awesome. And you may have some followers of the same belief but excuse me if I don’t believe in it or think it is the best way to live life.
        To me it Doesn’t matter if you believe in the same God or not, So sure save yourselves but what really needs saving is the habitats and and precious resources we think we can just have our way with!!
        Of course that doesn’t matter if you don’t consider or care the earth we are leaving our kids, because we all hear it to often “I won’t be around then so who care’s”.

        • Big AL February 26, 2013 at 12:24 am #

          You didn’t get my point Jerry, where was I trying to force my beliefs on you or anyone else? I merely was pointing out things I see or believe. Totally missed it. And I don’t like religion.

          • Jeremiah's stance February 26, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

            @Big Al,
            I guess the text and the way our brains work don’t allow us to fully comprehend the way we intend each other to grasp what we are saying but oh well, Right? No offense or hard feelings… Blogging elsewhere continues.
            I am really interested in getting your insight on the WolfPAC fight? You can get info on it at WolfPAC.com and click on the flyer tab and it spells out the fight and objectives and problems. If you can weigh in on that I am curious what YOU think and if you think it is worthy to pursuit?

  13. Eastern Sierra Local February 22, 2013 at 9:01 am #

    As an agnostic, but who was raised in a “Christian” household and society I find most religious symbols on public land an intrusion of my rights.

    • Religious Terrorism February 22, 2013 at 12:58 pm #

      Christian terrorism comprises terrorist acts by groups or individuals who claim Christian motivations or goals for their actions. As with other forms of religious terrorism, Christian terrorists have relied on idiosyncratic or literal interpretations of the tenets of faith – in this case, the Bible. Such groups have cited Old Testament and New Testament scriptures to justify violence and killing or to seek to bring about the “end times” described in the New Testament, while others have hoped to bring about a Christian theocracy.

      • Big AL February 22, 2013 at 11:39 pm #

        If one has hate in their heart they can justify it with any means, in their own minds.

    • Cross-burning Christians February 22, 2013 at 1:02 pm #

      Beginning after the Civil War, members of the Protestant-led Ku Klux Klan organization began engaging in arson, beatings, cross burning, destruction of property, lynching, murder, rape, tar-and-feathering, and whipping against African Americans, Jews, Catholics, and other social or ethnic minorities.

      They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a “religious foundation” in Christianity. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to “reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible,” and believe that “Jesus was the first Klansman.” Their cross-burnings were conducted not only to intimidate targets, but to demonstrate their respect and reverence for Jesus Christ, and the lighting ritual was steeped in Christian symbolism, including the saying of prayers and singing of Christian hymns. Many modern Klan organizations, such as the Knights Party, USA, continue to focus on the Christian supremacist message, asserting that there is a “war” on to destroy “western Christian civilization.”

      • Eastern Sierra Local February 25, 2013 at 2:26 pm #

        And most members of the KKK were also Democrats.

        • Wayne Deja February 25, 2013 at 10:05 pm #

          Eastern Sierra Local……WOW,I think I heard Sean Hannity and Glen Beck say that same thing on FOX NEWS !!!!!….so it must be true…..We all know FOX NEWS never deviates from the truth….

          • The medium's the message February 26, 2013 at 7:41 am #

            Wayne Deja –

            Thanks for that. I see Fox has (wisely) dumped Beck and Palin trying to reach a more moderate base. Republicans better find a way to cater to our hispanic brothers and sisters if they ever want to win another election.

          • Jeremiah's stance February 26, 2013 at 12:45 pm #

            Enough with the right Vs left arguments and never ending ego trips. If you haven’t learned the real fight is You and I versus Congress!
            Join the WolfPac on wolfpac.com and find out how you can take on the corruptive influence of money and how We The People can’t get anything done unless we have endless pockets to buy congressman and Woman or support a constitutional amendment stating corporations are not people and do not deserve first amendment rights. If you give a damn look into it it’s one of the last real fight’s to get our Republic/Democracy back to the People!!
            Or you can carry on with these sheep arguments….

        • Facts please? February 26, 2013 at 7:25 am #

          Could you please furnish some facts that might prove your statement Eastern Sierra?
          Or is just the same nutty, teaparty “Repubs are better Americans than Dems!” nonsense?

          • Senator from W. Virginia February 26, 2013 at 10:54 am #

            Democrat Senator from V. Virginia Robert Byrd was a huge KKK Supporter.

        • Trouble February 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm #

          That’s sure not true any more.

  14. Jake February 25, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

    Religion is mans way of control YOU… it has nothing to do with God or our Creator.

    to sum it up religion is for puppets who cannot think, fall in line idiots

    • East v West February 26, 2013 at 6:44 am #

      Jake, I agree.

      Eastern religion per se (especially buddhism) is designed to assist you in taking the inward journey. Western religion per se (especially Christianity) is fear-based and is designed to promote external thinking: Your god is always “out-there” somewhere.

      You may see why many from that group called “The Right” are attracted to the power-tripping philosophy of the almighty.


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