Tourism assessment up for a vote

mltc6_19_13Wednesday night, the Mammoth Town Council will consider approval of the formation of the Mammoth Lake Tourism Business Improvement District. This move would mean annual assessments on gross sales of many businesses to raise $4.7 million to pay for marketing of the Town and for air service subsidy.

This issue is the main item on the Council agenda Wednesday night. According to the TBID website, 68.35% of local businesses petitioned to approve formation of the TBID. A minimum of 51% was required. This issue has gone through the legal steps, including public comment at the Council’s last meeting. In that session, comments were about evenly split – for and against the additional tax, as most see it (http://www.sierrawave.net/25052/tbid-in-mammoth/)

Lodging would pay 1% of gross revenue, retail, 1.5% of gross sales, restaurants, 1.5% of gross food sales, 2% on lift ticket and ski school sales at the ski resorts. With retail and restaurant businesses that bring in less than $150,000 in annual revenue or which do not receive at least 50% of their annual revenue from visitors, payment is $500 per year.

If the Town Council approves this new district, collections will start August 1st. There is an appeal process. Call 760-934-2712, extension 0.

 

 

105 Responses to Tourism assessment up for a vote

  1. JUST MORE GREED PASSED ON TO THE GUEST June 30, 2013 at 11:17 am #

    When I was out welcoming and greeting our motocross guest and filling my petition pages for more public use of our world known motocross track (that was very positive and well accepted) by our money spending guest (3-1). They all love visiting the area every year but The biggest complaints:Terrible customer service in some restaraurnts,(J.P.W)
    would like more appreciation when they drop thousands of dollars in town, and Getting way to exspensive with very low value and return for our dollar for a family fun vacation in Mammoth.FYI This years Mammoth MX race had 3000+riders not including all there families members,fans, and guest who watched the race. I estimate over12000 were here just for the MX race. The mammothites need to wake up and put friendship with government on the back burner and get invovled to stop the greedy ones from pricing out Mammoth!!

     
    • Please refrain from stereotyping July 1, 2013 at 6:01 am #

      Don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m a Mammothite and am friendly to everyone.

       
    • Woods July 1, 2013 at 11:30 am #

      sounds like YOU need to wake up

       
    • sean July 1, 2013 at 12:17 pm #

      I have been asking since I moved to this town why we are not hosting three MX events a year at the track. It is a no brainer. The MX event seems like a huge success.

      I was told the Forest Service does not approve of the MX event and turns a blind eye to it thus there is only one event per year. I don’t know the details. What I was told makes no sense.

      If the Forrest Service is the problem preventing more use of the MX track and the obvious benefits to the city then why is town government not doing more to apply pressure to the correct people?

      Might I suggest tracking down which members of Congress sit on the subcommittee for the United States Department of Agriculture. I think it is the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry. Paul Cook is our local 8th district Congressman. He sits on many committees. If the local Forest Service manager is not cooperative with Mammoth hosting more MX events (or anything for that matter) then lets see if Congressman Cook can be of some help in motivating the Forest Service to be more “open” to it. All it might take is a few calls. And if Congressman Cook is unresponsive we turn up the heat by hosting a fundraiser for this opposition. He will start to listen as the drumbeat gets louder.

      “Just about anything can be accomplished when the right amount of pressure is applied in the right spots.”

      I have also heard comments about locals not wanting “those types of people” in town referring to the Motocross competitors and fans. If that is the majority opinion then the MX people should go where their business is more welcome.

      Regarding the TBID I am against the open-ended use of these funds to subsidize airline tickets. I do not believe the numbers presented showing how much each airline passenger spends in town. The number appears inflated big time.

      I would be in favor of a very limited subsidy with an end date. Eventually the air service has to stand up on it’s own two feet. Mammoth should not be in the business of running a Post Office or Amtrak like service on the back of the taxpayer.

       
      • Not a big money-maker July 1, 2013 at 2:45 pm #

        Sean,
        other than buying groceries at Von’s and beer at … wherever, and putting gas in their cars, the motocross crowd historically doesn’t frequent many Mammoth restaurants, see any plays, attend any wine-tasting events, hear any musical concerts, checks out the sales at the other retail establishments, etc.
        Von’s is about the only business that makes out like a bandit from this crowd, similar to when the fishermen and the campers come to town.

         
        • Sean July 1, 2013 at 7:32 pm #

          How exactly do you know this? I see a lot of vehicles at the Village with dirt bikes in the back. I see a lot of pick-ups with bikes parked in lodging parking lots.

          Parking lots look full on Main st.

          I think THEY DO go to restaurant and bars. I doubt they go to plays and wine tastings. Are we trying to build the next Napa? Plays and wine tastings only? If I wanted to live in Napa I would live in Napa. I don’t.

          Also why is the Sports store across from Carl’s Jr pushing a sale so hard in their parking lot if it was a failure? I think they are making money.

          I think you could say the same about campers, hikers, fishermen etc. I doubt we are turning our nose up to those people. They all spend money in town. Granted the spend patterns will vary by customer interest.

          I don’t think the town can afford to be picky about what types of tourists it is trying to attract.

           
        • Eternal Liberal July 2, 2013 at 7:39 am #

          Not a big money maker,

          A restaurant manager in Mammoth for the last 20 plus years told me that the restaurants make more money during the 2 weeks of the motocross than any other 2 weeks during the entire year. He is not the only restaurant manager that informed me of that. Maybe you should get your facts straight.
          The concerts and Sporting Goods stores are packed with the “moto-crossers”.
          I am not a moto-crosser but for over 30 years of living in town, I would say they are a very positive asset to the community.

           
          • Different Strokes July 2, 2013 at 11:50 am #

            Depends on the type of restaurant. I’m quite sure McDonald’s is by far the most popular restaurant in most towns. Please don’t take offense if a community entertains the notion of trying to upscale and broaden their overall scope. The fact is that when money becomes tighter and tighter, it’s not a bad idea to try to appeal to those who have the most disposable income. And more and more are visiting Mammoth Lakes who do not fish, ski, hike or camp.

             
      • J-Frog July 1, 2013 at 3:01 pm #

        Well Said Sean, “All it might take is a few calls. And if Congressman Cook is unresponsive we turn up the heat by hosting a fundraiser for this opposition. He will start to listen as the drumbeat gets louder.” That’s right!!
        here’s the numbers
        Rep. Paul Cook (202) 224 3121.
        can’t forget our state legislators,
        (D-26) Connie Conway (559) 636 3440.
        (D-8) Leland Lee (916) 651 4008.

        Remember it’s “We the people!”

         
  2. ferdinand lopez June 30, 2013 at 1:06 pm #

    use the 4.7 mill to come up with a way to lower the price of skiing and fishing and lodging,make it affordable and they will come

     
  3. MJA June 30, 2013 at 2:02 pm #

    Get Real
    The only reason the airline needs to be subsidized is because there is not enough demand to fill the empty seats. Taxing businesses to pay for the empty seats will not fill those seats, only real passengers can. =

     
    • Desert Tortoise July 3, 2013 at 5:06 am #

      US 395 is subsidized by the US taxpayer. In no way does it pay for itself out of user fees. In the US in general road user fees pay less than half of the total cost of highway and road construction and repair. The rest comes from general tax revenues. All forms of transportation, from air travel at the largest airports, to ocean transportation (who builds and pays for our ports?) to highways and rail are funded out of tax dollars. This is how a society achieves mobility. Do you think air service to Tonopah NV or Ely NV for example pay for themselves? No, but the state of Nevada and the US taxpayer subsidized air service to these places and many more so residents living there are not cut off from the world.

       
      • Mark July 3, 2013 at 12:58 pm #

        You got it DT

        But unlike the Bullet Train people will use digital 395

         
      • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:09 am #

        Cut off form the whole world .. I don’t think so … there are thousands of communities such and Ely and Tonopah all over the country, and the world that are in the same situation.

        Air services are subsidized so that the companies can keep their profit, if they don’t get subsidies or they don’t make enough to protect their profit, then they don’t provide service to those areas. Plain and simple!

        Try to peddle that notion to someone who doesn’t know any better DT. That aspect has nothing to do with mobility, it is pure business. And it is taking us for a ride, not the way we want to be taken.

         
  4. Carnac June 30, 2013 at 4:36 pm #

    Fool me once! September 28, 2012 at 1:36 pm #
    “Where is the leadership and shared hardship by the town council or town managers staff? Do the right thing for the town, cut your own benefits / compensations and personnel. You really going to try to use public safety and the children programs as hostage?

    Last nights smoke and mirrors failed to justify the tens of millions of dollars spent on an airport that the business interest have and still insist on. Face it folks, the airport has resulted in this our biggest failure to date. The mushrooming cost have and will continue to be passed on to the taxpayers. Missing in the room last night was the corporate elephant that helped get us into the commercial airport / subsidy business, with the help of this and past town councils. I felt a little empty without the investor class are watching, we need a 5-0 spiel.

    The whining about the one dissenting vote spoke volumes.

    Are we going to listen to same no fault or blame song and dance by yesterdays styled politicians? These boys helped to buy this elephant, now they deny any responsibility or knowledge of how much it would grow, eat or crap. ( the burn rate ) The failure to take responsibility is a glaring problem. They’ll need to pass the hat once again to continue their support for the airport, it’s just around the corner. We’re being led down that path to our wallets once again.

    Jeopardizing the towns public safety by the proposed cuts to Mammoth Lakes Police Department is irresponsible. Raising the dollars for the MLLA payments using program cuts is nothing more than political blackmail. These folks have no new ideas, just excuses for needing to take another bite of the tax apple,covering for the past, present, and future financial incompetence.”

    Two million a year for twenty-three years “it’s nobody’s fault”, don’t blame yourselves or hold anyone accountable! Now doesn’t that feel better!

    J.J.

    A: TBID
    Q: How do raise taxes without being held accountable?

     
    • No lack of apathy July 1, 2013 at 6:53 am #

      Hearing lots of “down with government!” rhetoric. Talk-radio people are making money by the sackful doing this.
      Meanwhile, two council persons (Bacon & Raimondo) got their jobs by running unopposed.
      If you’re not interested in getting involved, (running for office yourself) or finding persons you can support or feel may do a better job, and prefer only to whine about the Bureaucrats and nothing else – what do you think this accomplishes?

       
      • sean July 1, 2013 at 11:33 am #

        Well said.

         
      • Carnac July 1, 2013 at 12:10 pm #

        A. Boycott their businesses!

        Q. How do you tax a plutocrat?

         
    • Eternal Liberal July 1, 2013 at 10:15 am #

      Carnac,

      Feel free to jump in there and run for Town Council instead of just blaming and bashing.
      Save the world, we are waiting !!!!!

       
      • Carnac July 1, 2013 at 2:16 pm #

        A. Emerald City

        Q. Name a place that telling the truth about behind the scenes collusion, a person would be considered as blaming and bashing, a candidate for public office and a savior of the world ?

         
  5. Get over it! June 30, 2013 at 6:48 pm #

    TBID covers up the symptom, it’s not the cure.

    A short term solution to a long term problem.

    This is not a panacea for Mammoth’s future.

    It’s an underhanded, inequitable, unscrupulous power play to replace AIRPORT LAWSUIT LOSSES with a slight of hand trick to make you think it’s just “business as usual…” IT’S NOT!

    It’s just more MONKEY BUSINESS. Local government gone wild.

    IT’S A SHELL GAME. You will never replace the raided prudent reserves the town used for inflated numbers of employees.

    You can keep our community occupied by dividing them or confusing their attention but you haven’t fixed the problem.

    Cut expenses. NO TBID.

     
  6. A simple solution July 1, 2013 at 6:04 am #

    If you are that passionate with the “government gone wild” war cry, why not run for office yourself?

     
    • sean July 1, 2013 at 11:44 am #

      While I agree with the comments about if you have a better idea you should run for office there is one problem with the system here in Mammoth. People need to feed their families and people need an income to do that. Being on the city council does not pay crap. I think you get $300 a month plus some health benefits (from what I hear).

      As people struggle to get by in this town who has time or energy to take on a job that basically has no real pay. Why would you run unless you were going to seek a specific agenda that helped your personal situation?

      I think city council spots need to be paid positions. I say pay them $60K a year (pay amount can be argued more later). They need something to lose if they are not doing what the voting publics wants and the pay needs to be high enough to attract new people who want the job.

      People running unopposed feels “incestuous” to me in terms of local government.

       
      • What does bitching only accomplish? July 1, 2013 at 1:43 pm #

        Sean,
        Understood.

        Okay, you’d rather not run for any elected official position. Then why not find somebody (friend, relative, acquaintance, etc.) with similar interests/complaints, etc.,support him or her, and try make a difference that way?
        Easy to bitch about everything under the sun when it comes to government – but what does that really accomplish?

        Otherwise, the opportunity for corruption will never stop amongst our elected officials.

         
        • Sean July 1, 2013 at 8:05 pm #

          I am all for supporting campaigns and have if I liked the candidate. But we would need more than one person to vote for.

          And Yes to term limits.

          But back on point I am OK with some form of TBID but against never ending airline subsidies. I also really question using the money for paid search advertising online. I was told a good chunk of money would go for CPC (cost per click) ads for terms like Ski Vacation searches on Google. I have done a massive amount of online advertising over the last 12 years and I really doubt blanket Google ads is going to generate a net positive ROI on the money spent. Google ads are a giant black hole that money goes into and disappears.

          If this thing passes I hope there are some accountability and performance previsions. I hate to think of another bureaucracy being created that lives off tax money and has no accountability to show they are “turning a profit” in a sense in that the money spent (tax money) is doing more than just funding the Tourism authority pay checks.

           
          • Get involved citizens July 2, 2013 at 6:40 am #

            Ya gotta get involved, Sean. Any way you can. Politics will always be politics.
            You can bet your a_ _ the other guys (the guys you don’t like in the driver’s seat now) have no problem getting involved.
            Otherwise, the whining and complaining is 100% meaningless and accomplishes nothing.
            We’re all in big trouble when two people (Bacon and Raimondo) are in the power-positions and got the job with no opposition whatsoever.

             
      • SkiJohn July 1, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

        Sean, I agree with you completely. There also needs to be term limits. Sitting on there for decades just to feed their egos doesn’t help our town.

         
        • Recusing oneself means nothing July 2, 2013 at 12:16 pm #

          Absolutely, SkiJohn!
          Like a revolving door – One term … out!
          Next guy – One term … out!
          This will at least make it more difficult for the elected officials to partner with who knows who, to accomplish their monetary goals for themselves and their buddies.
          Everybody knows this can and does occur and nobody can do a thing about it.

           
          • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:17 am #

            We should have had one term for our current president and members of congress, and on down the line.

             
      • Desert Tortoise July 3, 2013 at 10:41 am #

        City Council is not a full time position in a general law city. Council members for the most part have day jobs paying the bills. You only have full time city councils in charter cities, and those are very large and few in number. Most cities are general law cities with a part time city council and a figurehead “mayor” who is just another city council member.

        Btw, you do not have to run for city council to become involved. Attend committee and city countil meetings and make useful suggestions during the required public comments time periods. Become a committe member yourself so you can directly influence policy. There are positive alternatives to help your community short of running for office. Quit complaining on line and become involved.

         
    • Mark July 1, 2013 at 12:47 pm #

      Because it’s easier to just move out of town, and never drive up 203 again.

       
      • Why not really get active? July 1, 2013 at 1:47 pm #

        Easier still to simply listen to talk-radio all day.
        And this accomplishes …?

         
  7. Desert Tortoise July 1, 2013 at 10:24 am #

    I agree with A Simple Solution. I somehow managed to get on a tax oversight commitee in my city even though I was a vocal opponent of the tax in question, blogging against it vigorously. I made the point that our city council had to have some sceptics on the committee or it would lack any credibility, and proposed a demonstration at a city council swearing in if some sceptics were not appointed, proposing to have demonstrators carry leashes for the poodles we expected to be appointed.

    The big surprise you get when you are on such a commitee and have access to actual data is that you discover there is more bs than truth in the blogospehere. Most people don’t have the slightest clue how a city budget is constructed, where money comes from or how it is spent. i have made a point of researching and documenting ten years of my city’s spending and published this information for the public to understand. Doing so raised some hackles with the city council, but they had to back down under public pressure.

    If you have a beef with how things are done in your city, get involved in the process. Attend committee meetings and city council meetings. Make a real effort to understand how a budget is written, where the money comes from and the myriad of restrictions on how various pots of money may be spent. If other cities are an example, probably 1/4 to 1/3 of your revenue comes from the state or Federal government as intergovernmental transfers, and those dollars can only be spent certain ways. Transportation funds and law enforcement grants are examples of funds that have very severe restrictions on how the money may be spent. Get involved and learn the ropes so you can comment out of knowledge rather than from some blind, inchoate anger.

     
  8. A moderate America July 1, 2013 at 10:35 am #

    I always get amused by those who do nothing but whine, complain and arm themselves with machine guns ready to overthrow the government. Ever heard of Timothy McVeigh? If the country wanted somebody like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachman or others from that side of the fence – the country would have elected them.
    Gotta reach the moderates folks – or you’re destined to find yourself listening to the radio all day and eventually finding yourself in a looney bin shouting “Down with America!” gibberish.

     
    • J-Frog July 1, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

      Yeah I hear that!
      I seen on a blog once, somebody referred to the general public (the content or complacent type) as to a dog. They referred them to a dog since the dog will most likely eat anything the owner gives them, the dog will not attack owner in demand for better food, the dog will eat its terrible unhealthy food, live a content comfortable life till the day it dies, But once you take that dogs food away, the dog will fight!
      If there was a time to get up and fight now is the time!
      Like today I just heard how the net worth of 30 something year old’s is down 21% since 1983, that’s with the consideration of inflation. And why is it student loans keep going up? Student loans can’t be eliminated by bankruptcy but yet the corporations and banks get to claim bankruptcy while the executives take in ridiculous bonus’s? Who’s Okay with that? Nobody! Why let them continue to take in all the productivity gains (since the 76′ and 78′ ruling) and do nothing about it?
      If you can’t see whats happening, please be receptive to those that do.

       
      • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:22 am #

        Greed Jerry … it is gaining more power, it doesn’t care what it destroys.

         
        • J-Frog July 11, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

          Greed is correct Big Al, but how do we sit here and watch the American public shoot themselves in the foot over and over because we have become sheep to the system, Land of the free huh? can’t forget we hold 25% of the worlds prisoners in the world when we only hold 5% of the world population. We live in a society of a bunch of drones who do what their told with no real freedom to by-pass this unsustainable way of life. It’s not just Greed, it’s you, me and those alike that are not doing enough about it! We live in a skinner box.
          Greed is gaining more power because “we the people” let it happen. “we the people” take on the corporate agenda disguised as something that is relevant to the voter..

           
  9. Desert Tortoise July 1, 2013 at 5:50 pm #

    Moderate, they have more in common with an angry Arab street mob than they do with productive Americans who care about their country. If you talk to me about bringing down the government, count me as your sworn enemy.

     
    • Transformation of sworn enemies July 2, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

      Desert Tortoise –
      Perhaps if people would focus on the dynamics of trying to find viable solutions to problems (other than declaring war as a knee-jerk reaction to everything) those sworn enemies might transform into something more productive.

      I.e., those same “sworn enemies” from North Vietnam, are today trading partners with the U.S.

      Why not celebrate this fact every 4th of July or something?

       
      • Desert Tortoise July 3, 2013 at 10:45 am #

        What am I supposed to find in common with someone who makes veiled threats of taking up arms against my country or some gasbag politician talking about “2nd Amendment remedies”. Tribal people like the Taliban walk around in public armed and use guns to solve problems, not educated and well adjusted adults.

         
        • Tourbillon July 3, 2013 at 3:50 pm #

          DT, as a fellow vet, I’m with you – but please realize that most guns aren’t used in America to “solve problems”. And the Second Amendment is not a “gasbag” joke. It is there to keep that government you love so much honest and modest. Do not be so quick to denigrate good faith dissent or the Second Amendment, because without them you would not recognize your own government.

          The Fourth of July was grounded on “threats about taking up arms” against a ruling administration. Worked out pretty well. Keep that in mind tomorrow.

           
          • Benett Kessler July 3, 2013 at 4:10 pm #

            Tourbillon, Do you think we, the armed citizens, can really compete against Drones?
            Benett Kessler

             
          • Charlton Preston July 3, 2013 at 4:49 pm #

            Tourbillon –
            Also as a fellow vet, that same gun that may be used for self-defense, can also be used for murdering someone. I wish Dan Watson would chime in on this one.

             
          • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:27 am #

            Ame Tourbillon.

             
        • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:41 am #

          Don’t you just love this country!

          We can still voice our opinions … we may not always agree …. we are still guaranteed these rights.

          We just need to protect that!

          I am thankful for it all …. on this day, I reflect on where we still are and who we are still.

          I am thankful for those who have served, those who are serving, the sacrifices made through the decades. Thankful for the blessings.

          Thankful for neighbors. Thankful that we don’t always agree, yet at times we can agree. Especially when it counts.

          In all things … count the blessings otherwise, where is your hope?

           
    • Big AL July 4, 2013 at 11:25 am #

      DT .. yeah there are some who want to bring down the govt. but a greater more, that just want justice and freedom from an overbearing govt. Govt. should be in check, and not rule us.

      Yes we need govt. I don’t say bring it down, but check it.

       
      • Cubby (the government) Checker July 5, 2013 at 11:46 am #

        I wonder where Big Al was when that overbearing government of the time force-fed the country into believing weapons of mass destruction were most certainly in Iraq?

         
  10. MOTOCROSS SPEND LOT'S OF $$$$ July 1, 2013 at 10:49 pm #

    TO all the people who think O.H.V and motocross is a scroungey white trash sport? YOUR JUST JELOUS OF WHAT WE HAVE AND DO!! The motorized industry and groups work hard and have there own businesses making thousands to have the expensive toys,Big trucks,riggs,toy boxes,motor homes, multiple motorcycles street & dirt,scooters,buggies,boats,jet ski’s,UTV’s for the whole family( including kids toys that still cost $2-5000 a peice) snowmobiles,and own big nice houses. Here’s an example of how a motorized family from out of state(Oregon no sales tax) dropped thousands in less than 4 hours when they arrived in town.1 of the families visiting was there first time racing the Mammoth Motocross Race. I approached them with my petition and was surrounded by 2 motor homes with big toy hauler trailers.There were 2 plated dual sport Suzukis on a trailer for sale in the Von’s parking lot .Both Motorcycles were very clean. family group of 8 were checking them out. Soon the owner showed up and BAM 1 bike sold for over $2500 within a 1/2 hour.Then they walked across the street to outdoor sports and purchased 2 Killer downhill mountain bikes at $2000+tx a piece. Do the math people. Then I saw them coming out of Vons with 4-5 carts full of groceries. Estimated $1600+ in groceries.I found out they rented elite condos for 6 days at $300-400 a night. Now this is just 1 MX family. Think about all the other Team rider support crews,Pro & amatuer riders,there families,friends,and fans. A majority ate out at expensive resaurants, rented bikes and rode the bike park,boats for fishing, paddleboards for the lakes,shopped the retail stores for Mammoth logo stuff and Supplies for there races. Didn’t hear any complaints of how exspensive mammoth can be.There on Vacation and there is no limit when it comes to spending money in our small town.(Quote/Unquote). I estimate the town made over $18-20 million dollars in A 10 day MX event. Entry fees alone are over a $100.00 per class. Many people had the whole family racing more than 1 class. minis,125,womens races,250, and 450 for the big boys. I hope this changes some of these non MX post minds of how much motorized groups boosts the revenue for the month of June in Mammoth.

     
    • hippy rich July 2, 2013 at 11:29 am #

      But did they go to a play???? or drink wine???

       
      • Tatoo Tom July 2, 2013 at 12:55 pm #

        But did they close down the bars??? or get into fights???

         
        • Square Steve July 2, 2013 at 7:17 pm #

          But did they have fun???? And will they come back again???

           
          • you know the type July 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm #

            Come back and do what? Wonder when it will be when a tattoo parlor will open in town?

             
          • Triangle Tom July 3, 2013 at 4:06 pm #

            The young people who come to town aren’t exactly known for their lavish spending habits in a well-known resort town that depends on the tourist dollar.
            Motocross and Snowboarders are quite young (20s) and contribute such revenue generating with the purchase of cigarette papers, cheap beer, and usually stay 6 to a room.
            Why do you think that more successful areas like Park City and their premier resort Deer Valley, prohibits snowboarders?

             
    • Arnold Auditor July 3, 2013 at 6:00 pm #

      Well, then that $18 – 20 million should surely pay for the town’s bankruptcy costs.
      I appreciate your zeal but I think that estimated figure may be … (ahem) incorrect.

       
      • Buffalo Billious July 3, 2013 at 8:28 pm #

        $18-20 million could pay for about half of the town’s bankruptcy costs. But the town government didn’t receive that money. If you follow along it was the retail, restaurants, and lodging. Last week was great! Had fun, rode dirt, and drank some wine. Attended no plays but read books. Mammoth is A+

         
    • Ken Warner July 4, 2013 at 3:56 pm #

      So you followed this family around for hours and took notes on their spending — that’s actually kind of creepy.

      How much did you spend in the same time period?

       
      • Wayne Deja July 5, 2013 at 11:34 am #

        Ken….I was thinking the same exact thing…The story seems like a whole lot of “who shot John”…..saying the town made OVER $20 million in 10 days of a MX event sounds kinda ridiculous to me…

         
  11. lefty July 2, 2013 at 8:42 am #

    If this TBID thing passes, which it will (because Rusty Gregory is shilling for it), I’m afraid people will seriously consider curtailing spending in town, as a protest. Why should the public pay to subsidize empty planes and advertizing for the same business entity that continually steps right in the pile of crap we’re trying to avoid?

     
    • Ken Warner July 4, 2013 at 3:42 pm #

      “I’m afraid people will seriously consider curtailing spending in town”

      I’ve done that already and was told I was disgusting and should move away and labeled with all the other popular denigrations and insulting appellations.

      Are we beginning to see another demonstration of the three stages of truth?

       
  12. Firefighter Family July 4, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

    For the uninitiated…there is already a tattoo artist in Mammoth Lakes.

     
  13. Wayne Deja July 4, 2013 at 7:36 pm #

    Motocross $$$….Sounds to me like you might have a pony in this race….Just out of curiosity,what kind of petition were you trying to get this “rich family” to sign ?….and how the heck did you follow and observe their expensive jaunt through town into Von’s,Outdoor Sports,and then,I presume,following them up to an expensive $400.00 a night condo ?..When you say you were surrounded by 2 big expensive motor homes with haul trailers,your probably lucky you weren’t soon surrounded by Mono County Sheriffs vehicles wondering why you were keeping an eye on this visiting family from Oregon.

     
  14. Sharing the wealth Sharon July 5, 2013 at 11:50 am #

    Why not let Bridgeport or Bishop get a crack at the millions upon millions of dollars the one guy said were generated by the motocross crowd?
    Why should Mammoth hog it all?

     
    • Wayne Deja July 6, 2013 at 3:35 pm #

      Sharon….Agree with you….Bring the MX event to Lone Pine !!!…..The community here could use a quick $ 20 million plus this weekend !!

       
  15. WAYNE,WAYNE,WAYNE July 6, 2013 at 9:47 am #

    Mr. WAYNE WAYNE DEJA, Is that your real name? I’m really surprised in your behavior towards 1 Golden Goose $$$ Guest Motocross,dual sport,and all O.H.V Families You need to remember each Family members has his own personal toy.They need expensive big rigs to tow all there fun in big Toy boxes.Wayne,I picture you on a Honda Gull wing,or A John Deer Driving lawnmower to cut your weeds at your home, were ever that is? Regarding the Petition Come to Mammoth I’m in Vons parking lot and you will find out.The family with the $$$ from Oregon Were spending money in town Restaraurnts, Rafters,Roberto’s,Grumpy’s, Gio’s pizza and Vons.I saw them in town when I was up and out 5am to 10pm. I hosted my own event during the Motocross Races.I Gave out 400 wrist bands, and collected 2000 + signatures. My main intent is to bring back a Huge money source.Large Families visit for our recreational activities. We need them to come back in our town. The Mammoth Motocross track park area is a perfect staging area for families with small kids learning to ride mini motorcycles.That kid grows up, gets bigger bikes,Races,then has his own family to keep up the M/C and O.H.V family tradition for generations.

     
    • Mark July 6, 2013 at 3:58 pm #

      Wayne’s for real. He’s in the phone book. I’m going to call him up and take him to lunch some day.

       
    • Roy Realist July 7, 2013 at 5:46 am #

      This has nothing to do with attitude. Though there will always be those that think it is. The reality is the economy is worsening. Good jobs are getting harder to find. Money is getting tighter and tighter The realists know that the smartest thing to do is try to attract those with the dough. Call ’em “yuppies” of you’d like, but the fact is there are more Southern Californians attracted to wine walks then motorcycle racing.

       
    • Wayne Deja July 7, 2013 at 11:24 am #

      Motocross $$$$$..Question……Did they have anchovies on their pizza at Gio’s ?

       
  16. Wayne Deja July 6, 2013 at 3:27 pm #

    Motocross $$$…So you were following the family around and into the restaurants too…from 5 A.M untill 10 P.M.?…..

     
    • Stalking Motocross folk? July 7, 2013 at 5:58 am #

      Motocross $$$ – that’s a bit creepy to follow people around documenting what they do. Sounds like stalking to me. But I don’t think you actually did that. It appears you are enamored with the sport, but don’t understand why it is that there are some Southern Californians who view it in the same category as cage-fighting. This is simply not the reputation some residents and homeowners of the area want for their community.
      The Southern Californians who vacation here prefer things a bit more upscale – and what’s wrong with that?

       
  17. Ken Warner July 7, 2013 at 8:33 am #

    Of all those “millions” spent in town, the Town of Mammoth Lakes gets less than 5% of it from sales tax. And if they have big motor homes, do they really rent $600 a night condos?

    And none of those “big toys” were boutht in Mammoth — unless we have an RV/Trailer lot I didn’t know about. And do people really come to a MX event without a motorcycle and then look around for one to buy?

    The claims of huge money being spent in Mammoth Lakes won’t stand inspection if you examine them closely.

    I suddenly feel a wave of boredom wash over me…

     
    • Charlie Cheapskate July 7, 2013 at 2:33 pm #

      Motocross simply is not a money-maker.
      The type that loves that sort of thing doesn’t like to spend money.
      They’d rather spend their money on tattoos and cage fighting.

       
    • Mark July 8, 2013 at 10:16 am #

      Have it your way, I’ll be sure to tell all my motocross friends to avoid spending any money within TOML.

      People in Mammoth get what they deserve if they really believe mx doesn’t bring money to town.

       
      • Ken Warner July 8, 2013 at 12:32 pm #

        Please tell all of your MX friends to avoid Mammoth altogether.

         
        • james haggerty July 8, 2013 at 7:53 pm #

          Soooo arrogant! For somebody that seems to pride themselves on basing all their facts on statistics from left wing blogs and publications to not do any research in YOUR OWN TOWN! on a subject so controversial and compile an opinion based on your emotions is astonishing! And weak! I, personally, know of several motocrossers that book for extended periods of time at condo complexes in town for the event and have for years because the community was freindly to their interest. Some have even BOUGHT property here! Would you like their contact information? Have you talked to Snowcreek, or any of the other condo managers, restraunteurs, as to what their clientle was comprised of during that 2 week period? My experience has been places full of tatoos, smiling faces, and lots and lots of money coming out of their rusty wallets. They are here for a great time, for sure. And it was provided thankfully by the community for an entire generation. It just doesn’t fit your agenda for this community. Ask Davidson and Cage at the Chevron how the car wash business was those 2 weeks….

           
          • Middle road Mike July 9, 2013 at 10:27 am #

            Re: james haggerty’s post –

            I knew it wouldn’t take long for somebody to introduce the very tiresome “right-wing is better than left wing!” childish BS. A certain unnamed movement has been doing this divisive nonsense for over a decade now. And, of course, this is supposed to set the stage for them being in “the know” on ALL topics (chuckles).
            And now, one must first repeat the same tiresome message to this type: When that very aggressive movement can come up with a right-wing presidential candidate the country can support, the country will vote for them. But until then …
            But now, back to the subject at hand. Some Southern California vacationers prefer motocross – other Southern California vacationers do not. Why is this so difficult for that group to understand?

             
          • Non-partisan Paul July 9, 2013 at 3:41 pm #

            “…pride themselves on basing all their facts on statistics from left wing blogs”

            And this sadly, is the non-stop screeching partisan noise of what passes for public discourse in America today, an America where a good portion of the populace feels and defines itself as under siege.

            Paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you’re always afraid. Step out of line – the man comes and takes you away.

            Pity these poor souls. Their unhappiness is consuming them.

             
          • Big AL July 9, 2013 at 5:52 pm #

            Dr. Facts .. you sir or ma’am …. are doing the very same thing you are squawling about. Causing divisiveness! I am sure I am not the only one who sees it, you may have some fooled.

             
          • A house divided July 10, 2013 at 9:16 am #

            The day wouldn’t be complete w/out Big Al whining about something his “Dr. Facts'” posts.
            And of course, this is what is passing for “meaningful dialogue” to that type accompanied with the usual childish “Our group is better than your group!” BS.

            Bottom line – See ya at the Voting Booth.

             
  18. Easy Rider July 8, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

    Nothing wrong with the MX counterculture thing. To each his own. But to suggest that they are a boon to Mammoth Lakes’ economy is a bit exaggerated. Now, places like Bridgeport …

     
    • Wayne Deja July 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm #

      Easy Rider…Gotta chuckle at your post here….May I suggest you go to Bridgeport and ask the citizens there if they want to turn their town and out-lying areas into an MX track ?….and talk to the VERY pro-active CHP if it’s OK if they use the highway and town streets for them to race around getting from point A to point B……

       
      • Easy Rider July 10, 2013 at 11:34 am #

        Wayne Deja –

        If not for Bridgeport being the County Seat (employing generations of Bridgeport local for the County) it is doubtful the town could survive without some other revenue-producing event such as the MX that one poster insists is generation “$10-20 million ” per event.

         
    • james haggerty July 9, 2013 at 9:51 pm #

      Hi Mike and Ken!
      Mike…you are misunderstanding the point(s) here… First, to suggest that the activities the community supports must follow YOUR agenda politically, activities performed on public land, is neither left nor right…it’s simply arrogant. You see any of the off road community gathering support to shut down the 1/2 marathon…
      Second, and you may not understand this, but Ken has historically advocated a controlled, dare I say “conservative” development strategy for the Town, to which I agree whole heartedly. But you can’t argue that you are O.K. with certain revenue generating schemes because you ike them politcally and personally and toss out all other interests. And NO-ONE can discount the history that the Mammoth Motocross and it’s legacy of recognition has brought to this Town. Call Dave and ask him how he feels about the movement to kill the motocross!
      And thirdly, and I trust Ken probably is surveying the condo complexes as we speak because he does pride himself on “research”, he lives here. No need to regurgitate other peoples thoughts on the subject. Go ask all those complexes on what we call condo row…all mthose accessed off of Meredian Blvd and/or Sierra Nevada Rd.. No need to cut and paste on this subject.

       
  19. sugar magnolia July 8, 2013 at 9:06 pm #

    for every one mxer, they chase away 5 other tourists….literally, they wreck everyone elses recreation. Plain and simple. Ever ride your mountain bike on a trail that a dirt biker has ridden on? You’ll never do it again. I would be fine with them coming here if they could be limited to the moto x area and not allowed to ride other places. I don’t begrudge them a place to ride, they just have to be limited due to the damage they do to other’s use of the same area. Think about it, a mountain biker and a hiker have a brief conflict when recreating on the same trail at the same time, pretty much same for a horseman too or a runner. But a MXer, has a conflict with another user not just while both are on the trail, but even when they’re off the trail because they damage it. They should be limited to Bishop…perfect fit!

     
    • MARK July 9, 2013 at 10:49 am #

      “for every one mxer, they chase away 5”

      yeah right,,

       
      • Wayne Deja July 9, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

        Mark…Happens to be true…Good example is the Jawbone Canyon-Redrock Canyon area south of Ridgecrest..back in the 70’s,a great place to visit,camp and hike…..now,go by there and see what it’s turned into….and that’s just the landscape,never mind the annoying MX’ers flying around making their own trails and raising heck for whoever happens into the area without a dirtbike.

         
        • Mark July 10, 2013 at 11:33 am #

          Wayne, I rode jawbone for years. The reason Jawbone is over used now is because the BLM keeps closing off areas and trails around Jawbone forcing more people into a smaller area. We do not ride their anymore.

          Now we ride out at Splangler and this last year I’m seeing the BLM doing the same thing out there.

          If you’re an offroader and want to keep areas open please join the AMA.

          Thank God California City rolls out the red carpet to us OHV’ers. And they bring in lots of money because of it.

           
          • Wayne Deja July 10, 2013 at 3:51 pm #

            Mark….The reason BLM started closing areas near Jawbone is as clear as the nose on ones face….Back in the 70’s and early 80’s,the area was open to MX’ers and off-roaders….and what happened there is what happens whenever an area is open to their sport….give them a foot,they take two or three,and eventually the whole area is destroyed.When I lived in Lancaster back in the late 60’s early 70’s,same thing happened out in the area between Lake Los Angeles and Lancaster on the eastside. Used to be a little restaurant,I think on 100th St.East and Ave.J called the Ponderosa where they had MX events.Soon,it turned into a “racetrack” all the way past 220th St…from Ave. A to Ave. P…There was a time you could go for a walk out there and within minutes see a Desert Tortoise to observe….By 1980 you could spend a month out there and never see one,except for the carcasses’ of those that were run over or shot.

             
      • Mammoth Motorcycle Club July 9, 2013 at 4:12 pm #

        Mark,
        Ignorant and hard headed people talk (or in this case, they “blog”), not because they have something intelligent to say… it’s because they have to say something. anything. In this case, the more outlandish the better.

        It’s sad really, and hardly worth you time to respond.

        -Mammoth M/C

         
        • Wayne Deja July 10, 2013 at 7:08 pm #

          MMC…I’ll go back to the story about when I went up to Virginia Lakes a couple years ago…..nice,peaceful place to camp and fish….but then,along come the MX and off-road group of “guy-guys”…..riding their dirt bikes up to,in to,and over the pristine creek…a group of annoying loud-mouths drinking,cussing,throwing their beer cans around…letting their aggressive dogs run leash-free..and then after I reported their behavior to Law Enforcement,finding out they had done the same thing in a crowded nearby campground the week before,and were run off there too..the same group..like sugar magnolia said,they LITERALLY ruin it for everyone,and not just by tearing up the land, destroying the mountain bike and hiking trails,but also the peace and quiet some seek at high-elevation creeks and campgrounds….Mark,Cal City is a perfect place for OHV’ers and the $20 million dollars they bring to the community each week,like MX $$$ stated they do earlier in this post……Virginia Lakes ?…..not really a good place to be doing it….and from what Mono County Law Enforcement said,not a legal place to be doing it either.

           
          • Mammoth Motorcycle Club July 11, 2013 at 9:01 am #

            No-one rides dirtbikes on hiking trails around Virginia Lakes, Wayne. Your story, as entertaining as it may be, is borderline schizophrenic. Please step away from the keyboard and seek professional help (or gainful employment).

            I hear Friends of the Inyo is looking for a new President. Perfect fit!

             
          • Mark July 11, 2013 at 9:58 am #

            Like I said the vistor centers should direct the OHV’s to other locations. Anywhere East of 395 is pretty much game on. Better yet direct them to Bishop seems mammoth residence don’t want their money anyways.

            But you have the vistor center and people like SL directing them inside of TOML limits.

             
          • Wayne Deja July 11, 2013 at 2:50 pm #

            Mammoth Motorcycle Club…..You calling me a liar ?…..How do you know if people go up there and ride where they shouldn’t ?..If your not familiar with the area,when you turn off HWY. 395 on top of Conway Summit,there is sign and a turn-off saying “Virginia Lakes”….you turn left and head up the steep grade….about 5 miles up,there are 2 or 3 campgrounds on the left hand side,about 2 miles from the lakes.Who said they were “riding ” on hiking trails ?…..but I am sure they were getting on some of them as they were “recreating” through the campsite,over and into the creek(actually riding IN the creek for a ways),riding on and around PRIVATE dirt roads leading to small summer cabins, and up and into an avalanche site.It’s one thing to push your agenda saying something you know nothing about what goes on in an area.It’s a whole nother thing to call someone a liar about what I witnessed….AND reported to Law Enforcement.If the Friends of Inyo help to prevent this from happening, and preserve the areas these “guy-guys” continue to desimate and destroy,good for them.Maybe these “riders” should don their colorful little outfits and stay on the trails they are supposed to stay on…and stay out of the areas they don’t belong.

             
    • No to motorcyles on our trails July 9, 2013 at 12:27 pm #

      Our beautiful, quiet, clean mountain community is extremely rural. We like it that way. It’s why we live here.
      Motorcycles on our trails is a definite infringement upon our way of life. I know of no respectable Mammoth resident who frequents this noisy, dusty, and sometimes crass environment that this event is famous for. Please make other arrangements for this event. The culture of Bishop or Bridgeport may be more to the event’s liking.

       
      • james haggerty July 10, 2013 at 10:27 pm #

        I’m sorry you had a bad experience on your walk. Did they stop and apologize,(something i’ve tried to do in the past)? The point to be taken here , though, is they are not your trails. If you live in the Knolls, you might be accustomed to an experiance that is falsely secure.

         
      • Eternal Liberal July 11, 2013 at 8:03 am #

        No motorcycles on our trails,

        Calling people like Dave McCoy “no respectable Mammoth resident” shows what a TRUE JERK you really are. Feel free to move away anytime. Nobody respectable will miss you.

         
        • Webster on Liberal July 11, 2013 at 10:11 am #

          Eternal Liberal –

          My highest respect for your liberal pride.

          According to Webster:
          liberal – free, belonging to the people, not restricted, generous, tolerant of views differing from one’s own, broad-minded, favoring reform or progress, free-thinking

          According to Neoconservatives:
          Anti-American, communistic, socialistic, trouble-maker, of the Devil

           
      • Trouble July 11, 2013 at 10:31 am #

        We have no real culture in Bishop. Just good old boys laughing their ass off as Mammoth sinks itself !

         
        • Capitalism 101 July 11, 2013 at 2:38 pm #

          Your jealousy is showing Trouble.
          Mammoth Lakes has more money behind it than you may ever know. And in a capitalistic system, money is everything. But if it makes you happy or more important to wallow in your redneck arrogance – laugh away!
          Mammoth Lakes will be around far longer than any Mule Days events.

           
  20. Sean July 9, 2013 at 9:21 pm #

    Amazing comments. I spend more time on the trails between Crowley and Mono than anyone I know and I rarely ever encounter a mountain biker. I mean MAYBE once or twice a year I see a mountain biker outside of town limits. I see 20 times more deer than mountain bikers. I see MX’ers or other off Roader almost every time I go out. Mountain Bikers seem to stay near town. There is not a conflict between MX’ers and bikers.

    I have spent amount $4,000 on Mountain bike stuff in the last year or so. In the last year I have spent many times that on Off Roading gear and vehicles. Most of this money goes elsewhere because the Mammth has no stores or services to support MX or off roading activities.

    People knocking MX’ers are ignorant as too the facts and are missing out on $$$.

    For Example – I will be going to Reno this weekend for the El Dorado 500 Off road race and I will probably spend about $1,500 to $2,000 between lodging, food, gas, T-shirts, beer etc etc. Point being MX money is low hanging fruit for this town but it seems the town is anti-MX so that is lost potential income due to an attitude problem with some people in this town.

    And I won’t be seeing a play or spending $100 on wine tasting while in Reno.

     
    • sugar magnolia July 10, 2013 at 9:07 am #

      sean, I’m with you on that one. I agree that Mtn bikers tend to stay near town, makes sense since they can only ride so far. While dirt bikers/mxers typically are trailering anyway (or can just ride on gravel roads out to where they want to ride).

      Its the ones who ride at Shady Rest park and out near the scenic loop that damage the mtn bike trails near town that cause the problem. It would be great if we could restrict mxers from a certain radius around town, but let them recreate all they want away from town.

      Sounds like a win win to me, but when I’ve brought it up to mxer’s I know, they take offense and say they should not be restricted at all.

      I don’t hate the sport or the people, but we have to face the facts that they are an incompatible activity with many other activities. If we don’t find a way to mitigate that, then people are going to come out completely against mxers.

      BTW, I know tons of local kids who compete in MX. But those kids aren’t riding out at Shady Rest or anywhere else close to town. I think its mostly tourists who don’t know where else to go, or people learning. I’m not sure, but I can tell you when they’ve been out there by riding the rutted trails they create.

       
      • sean July 10, 2013 at 1:44 pm #

        So who can tell me why is there only one MX event in Mammoth per year (factually please – not a guess or opinion)? We have a great track and the capacity to host more events? I was told the local lodging capacity was at 60+ % during the MX event which I think is considered a good turnout for the town.

        I “heard” the local Forrest Service district manager is not a fan of MX events and thus will not support any more at the existing track. Anyone know the truth about this and the person’s name who is specifically road blocking any further events at the existing track ?

        I was just out on BLM land near Benton Crossing and I think that would be a great place for a track. Plus it could be open longer due to less snowfall out there.

         
  21. Mark July 10, 2013 at 11:26 am #

    “Its the ones who ride at Shady Rest park and out near the scenic loop that damage the mtn bike trails near town that cause the problem.”

    You can blame the help at the vistor center for this as they are the ones directing people to that campground and area. Vistor Center personal are clueless when it comes to off roading. Between them and their stupid off road maps lies the problem. They are just as clueless when it comes to snowmobiling.

    I feel sorry for anyone that drives 300 miles and ends up camping and riding out of Shady Rest.

    I have never seen a mountain biker between Glass Mountain and Benton 😉 Tom’s Place to Benton and back is an exellent dirtbike ride.

     
    • Trouble July 10, 2013 at 6:49 pm #

      Mark- did you really have to suck snowmobiling in on your damaged trail theories? Snowmobiling hurts nothing, on trails or off. Once the snow melts all signs snowmobilers were there are long gone. Also, I have had some of the best times of my life snowmobiling out of Shady Rest and Smoke Bears Flats. Please don’t shut me out.

       
      • Mark July 11, 2013 at 9:20 am #

        You can snomo out of Shady if you want, and I’m not saying make it illegal. I’m saying show the dirtbike/snomo riders the better places to ride. The maps at the vistor center do not show the big picture, nor does it show all the staging areas so their maps direct people to the same area causing congestion. I’ve often thought TOML had a lot of influence in making those maps as they want to draw people into town so they get their tourist dollars.

        I also think the forest service wants everyone in the same area so it’s easier to make their presence known.

        Dirtbike riders could easily be discouraged from riding out of Shady mearly by showing them better places to ride and camp.

        When riding our dirtbikes or snowmo’s we always try to go where we will see the least amount of people. Making Shady the last choice everytime.

         
  22. Frank July 11, 2013 at 7:34 am #

    RE: Representative Paul Cook;

    I believe Col. Cook would be receptive to pushing for more MX events each year. Contact him if you are serious about it.

    Here’s an excerpt from his website:

    Jun 16, 2013

    WASHINGTON • Paul Cook scored another victory Friday in his quest to save a popular off-roading area from a military takeover.

    Cook, R-Yucca Valley, announced in a news release that his plan to create the Johnson Valley National Off-Highway Vehicle Area passed the U.S. House of Representatives as part of the National Defense Authorization Act.

    The NDAA passed the House by a vote of 315-107 and will now move to the Senate. If passed by the Senate, the bill will reach the president’s desk for approval.

     

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