Smart meters are here with a trail of public concerns

meterA Smart Meter is an electrical meter that records consumption of electricity and communicates that information to a utility for monitoring and billing. Southern California Edison came to the Eastern Sierra this week to offer a cheerful power point presentation on installation of the state-of-the-art meters in the next few weeks in Inyo and Mono. Many communities and the AARP are not so optimistic.

Edison Project Manager Doug Malousis spoke to both Inyo and Mono Boards of Supervisors Tuesday. He claims that the new meters will allow customers to manage their electricity use online.  The meters send data from individual homes via radio frequency waves to a cellular relay that sends the data on to the utility headquarters on an hour by hour basis.

Malousis said that power outages will be immediately reported to Edison.  He said installers are in the Eastern Sierra now.  The Edison manager did say that there is a program for customers to refuse the Smart Meters, called Opt Out.  The customer has to pay $75 one time and $10 per month to avoid a Smart Meter. So, why would someone want to avoid it?

Nationwide and worldwide, individuals and groups have raised concerns about health effects from the meters’ wireless radiation and the fear that utilities will start charging big time for use of power at particular times of day and season as they monitor customers’ use patterns with the new meters. This is called a “time of use” scheme also known as “dynamic pricing.”

Some news reports say power companies want Smart Meters so they can charge more for electricity during heavy use times which encourages customers to cut back.  This, it is reported, will help the utilities avoid investment in more power generating facilities.  Some groups say there is not enough information on how time of use pricing would impact vulnerable households.

There are also concerns about invasion of privacy.  The meters monitor and broadcast to utility headquarters specific electricity use patterns, times of day, types of appliances used.

Some areas have tried to ban the new meters altogether. Marin County passed an ordinance to keep Smart Meters out, so have other governments in other states. However, the California Public Utilities Commission has okayed the meters with the Opt Out program.

Mr. Malousis of Edison described it in the positive by saying that Smart Meters allow customers to “control their use of electricity.”


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82 Responses to Smart meters are here with a trail of public concerns

  1. Lynn May 17, 2012 at 9:06 pm #

    What’s odd is that sometime last summer, we noticed that our meter had been changed to a smart meter. We have no idea when it happened and no one came to the door to let us know they were going to be changing it out. We just noticed the new meter one day. Now the meter reader drives down the road with some device and points it at the house and records the information. We were never given a choice to opt out. It was just there one day. Unless it’s not the actual meter that we can opt out of but the “phone home” service.

    • Benett Kessler May 17, 2012 at 9:54 pm #

      If you have Edison service, it may be the Smart Meter. You have a right to call and find out. In fact, they should have notified you if they changed it out. Benett Kessler

      • Rob May 21, 2012 at 1:38 pm #

        Edison doesn’t notify you that they’ve changed your meter. They notify you via mail that they will be changing out your meter. Exactly when you don’t get to know. A contractor comes out (hopefully knocks on your door before turning your power off) and swaps out the meter.

        The choice to opt out wasn’t available until May 9th. You didn’t have a choice to opt out prior to May 9th.

        “Starting May 9, Edison customers can opt out by calling 800-810-2369”

        How’s that for the facts Ken Warner?

    • Jenny B June 6, 2012 at 5:30 am #

      Here is a site for smart meter refusal information.

    • wake up mammoth February 13, 2013 at 2:07 pm #

      Anti-smart meter activists fight back at council meeting, accuse city of breaking its own laws. Interesting story: see link

  2. Steve May 17, 2012 at 11:06 pm #

    Growers beware!

  3. leatherbag May 18, 2012 at 12:38 am #

    “Mr. Malousis of Edison described it in the positive by saying that Smart Meters allow customers to “control their use of electricity.” ”

    ^^Can you say, “bull schtick!” ^^ I thought you could.
    I am so nieve to think that people could already do that with the switch, knob, or the plug that controls the electrical device or appliance.

    More monitoring and control under the green guise. Difference this time is that they have added extortion to the menu.

    And the Sheeple-legislators and Boards of Sheeplevisors said, “Bah, Bah, Bah.” And the Sheeple answered back, “Bah, Bah, Bah.”

  4. Rob May 18, 2012 at 6:59 am #

    “So, why would someone want to avoid it?”

    The number one reason to opt out of having a smart meter is if you have solar.

    When your solar system is generating more power then your home is using your old meter would spin backwards as you supply power to the grid.

    The new meters to not spin go backwards when you are generating more power then you are using. So Edision gets your additional power and you don’t get the credit.

    I am sure Edision deliberately had this dumb feature built into their smart meter.

    • kyle May 20, 2012 at 8:36 pm #

      That is simply not true. My parents have a smart meter & solar panels. There is an arrow indicating direction of power flow. If you are putting power back into the grid, the arrow changes direction to indicate that. You do get credit.

      • Ken Warner May 21, 2012 at 8:21 am #

        Hey, don’t bother us with facts! We’ve already got our minds made up and you will only anger us.

      • Rob May 21, 2012 at 8:35 am #

        Kyle – I have both type meters. Yes the smart meter has an arrow showing which way the power is going. The smart meter also accumulates power sent back to the grid. But that amount is not deducted from the kw hours used from the grid.

        it’s actually funny how that direction arrow gives people a warm fuzzy feeling while being ripped off by the power company.

        • John Barton May 22, 2012 at 9:07 am #

          Rob- I’ve had a “smart” meter for over a year when I installed a solar generation array on my roof. The solar equipment included a meter that shows my power generation and every day for the first year I wrote down the kw reading on the smart meter. The difference between the meters was my net use or surplus so that I could verify one or the other. Of course when I generated more than I used the meter went “backwards” and reflected the decrease every month on the SCE statement, so Kyle is correct because the excess kw is being fed back to the grid. The little flashing arrow going backwards is not only warm and fuzzy but accurate. SCE now sends me a check each month for the surplus which is a nice change.

          • Rob May 22, 2012 at 3:20 pm #

            Don’t know what to say about that other then that’s not how mine works. You must have a hec of a solar array to build up enough credit to cover your usage at night and still get a check back from Edison. How many watts does something like that make to get actual refund?

  5. Ken Warner May 18, 2012 at 8:52 am #

    “There are also concerns about invasion of privacy. The meters monitor and broadcast to utility headquarters specific electricity use patterns, times of day, types of appliances used.”

    Right! It’s Big Brother trying to find out how much you use your electric toothbrush. With that information in hand, World domination is just a heartbeat away.

    • Rob May 21, 2012 at 9:13 am #

      “The meters monitor and broadcast to utility headquarters specific electricity use patterns, times of day, types of appliances used.”

      Yes, this is because power companies are moving toward tiered billing based on time of day. Currently the tiered system charges you more when you use more. Pretty soon they’re going to charge you more for power used during peak times regardless of how moch total power you use.

      • Ken Warner May 21, 2012 at 12:51 pm #

        …and what is it you really want? All the electricity you want for free?

        Or maybe you can use the information to reduce the electricity you use and actually save money.

        What I’m going to do is fit halogen bulbs in all my light sockets; buy an air conditioner that I don’t need and turn everything on and leave it on and then complain about how much electricity costs. Because complaining about things I can change is much more fun.

    • Reality Bites May 21, 2012 at 10:30 am #

      Yeah right. Were from the government and we are here to help.

      • Just the facts May 21, 2012 at 12:14 pm #

        Uh, no!
        I see the extreme Right is out in force today.
        Reality Bites must have taken some time off from his/her Tea Party duties to post some “I hate government” nonsense.

        Somewhere, Glenn Beck is smiling.

        • Dave May 22, 2012 at 2:00 pm #

          Just the Facts: I’m just curious to know: Did or do you work for an employer that is funded from tax revenue, ie. the government?

          • Just the facats May 22, 2012 at 4:08 pm #

            Dave: I’m also just curious to know: Does your blood boil and your blood pressure skyrocket just thinking of a government person, ie. any elected official?

          • Dave May 22, 2012 at 5:47 pm #

            Can’t even answer a basic question. “Just the facats” probably has some teaching background too. Answers a question with another question.

        • Bishop babe May 29, 2012 at 4:07 am #

          I am a liberal / Democrat and I am against smart meters and shady government corruption. You should not choose sides for this debate because this was a non democratic decision that was just forced upon us.

          • Ken Warner May 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

            Well, I read what you linked to. And I am speechless.

            As I understand your position, you’re line in the sand against Agenda 21 is to dis-allow the installation of a smart meter on your home.


            Stand up against smart meters. You’ll have to pry my old dumb electric meter from my cold dead junction box. That will stop redevelopment and support all the rest of the very salient points previously presented.

  6. upthecreek May 18, 2012 at 9:38 am #

    We could use a BUNCH or so called “SMART METERS” at the Town and MMSA.
    Do they have one that will fix a 40 million dollar deficit??


    • Just the facts May 22, 2012 at 7:42 pm #

      Oh, that funny, funny Dave!
      Always fantasizing he’s playing prosecuting attorney.
      “Answer My Question!”
      “And do it Now!
      “I mean it!”‘
      “No, really. I mean it!”
      You crack me up, Dave!

  7. leatherbag May 18, 2012 at 10:11 am #

    It’s more than monitoring and this is only part of the story.

    These meters will work hand in hand with what next will probably next be “required” also, as in “smart” thermostats, plug-ins, and so on in order that they can see exactly what appliance is running and have the ability to monitor your usage. Early talk was supposedly have the ability to brown specific targets out, like your air-conditioner or swamp-cooler.

    “Once advanced features are fully activated, SCE’s smart meters will be able to communicate with the next generation of smart thermostats, appliances and other devices, according to a press release from SCE.”

    • Rob May 21, 2012 at 11:02 am #

      “When you start paying attention to what’s inside your home, you can make tremendous savings,”

      I don’t need a smart meter for that. The smart meter allows edision to start paying attention to what’s inside your home.

      opt out!

  8. MonkeyMom May 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm #

    Like Lynn, our meter was also changed out quite some time ago without us being notified.

  9. Doglover May 21, 2012 at 1:36 pm #

    I have known about this for months. I chose to OPT OUT. Please research and chose for yourself there are a health risk with the meters. Do we really need any more health risks? Why do you think they did not give reasonable time for the public to be informed about the opt out program before they started putting these meters on peoples homes?

    Make sure your child’s bedroom is not on the wall where the meter will be. Children are at a higher risk due to there developing bodies, and smaller size.

  10. Dumb meters May 21, 2012 at 3:21 pm #

    Smart Meters are not just in the United States. They are being mandated in Europe by the European Union, and in other parts of the world by their federal governments. By doing more research, one finds out that smart meters are part of “smart growth” or “sustainable development” or “Agenda 21,” a plan devised by the United Nations in 1992, and “symbolically” signed by President Bush Sr. Even though the U.S. Senate never ratified it, President Clinton implemented the treaty by executive order # 12852 in 1993. The ultimate goal of Agenda 21 and its various programs is to exercise more and more control over our lives and property using the excuse of “saving the environment or saving the planet.”

    • Bishop babe May 26, 2012 at 10:02 pm #

      Agenda 21 for dummies

      Agenda 21 for even bigger dummies

      • Ken Warner May 27, 2012 at 4:57 pm #

        If it’s on youtube — you know it’s true (giggle)….

        • seth May 28, 2012 at 7:49 pm #

          If its on CNN or FOX news – you know its true (giggle)….

      • Big AL May 27, 2012 at 11:57 pm #

        Yeah … can you say one world order?

    • Letta Mego November 23, 2012 at 11:48 am #

      Smart meters are just another robbery…kind of like the bailouts. Except “smart” meters are more like armed robbery…”smart” meters are the same as cell phone substations which will control your new appliances like cell phones. And they will make the appliances that aren’t smart so expensive to operate you’ll be forced to buy “smart” ones. And if that doesn’t work, they can fry your old ones with the “smart” meter …”smart’ meters are tunable…You and your home will be under the control of the government and the utility companies by wireless remote control…click, click….you better stay in line or else. Oh, and the real beauty of it all….$$$…’ll have to pay for a new smart meter every 5 years or so…heh heh heh…and they are hackable…and they emit radiation that disrupts normal living cell functions…especially if they don’t like what you’re doing and they tune up the “smart” emissions…heh heh heh.

  11. Smart meters liked health problems May 21, 2012 at 4:30 pm #

    After the installation of a smart meter in their home, many people are reporting health symptoms, including:

    •Sleep disturbances
    •Dizziness, fatigue
    •Concentration & memory problems
    •Nervous & hormonal disturbances
    •Heart Palpitations
    •Behavioral problems in children

    Researchers have found that Smart Meters generate radically higher levels of radiation than power companies claim. Also, adding to the confusion, different Smart Meters seem to generate different amounts of radiation.
    One comprehensive report is the Bionitiative Report. Written by 15 scientists, researchers, and health policy professionals, this report documents clear evidence that numerous health issues, including DNA breakage and cancer, are created by exposure to radiation from cell phones, cell towers, power lines and WiFi.
    The World Health Organization (WHO) and the National Toxicology Program have also studied the effects of non-thermal radiation on human health. Their updated results are that, among other things, radiation can significantly increase the risk of glioma, a deadly brain tumor.
    Would you conceder these to be a risk?

    • Ken Warner May 22, 2012 at 9:46 am #

      I’ve been wearing an aluminium foil hat for several years now. No problems like you describe except all those people shouting — was that the phone — will someone answer the damn phone — what was I saying — DUCK — no wait that one’s ok……

      • another scam May 22, 2012 at 7:17 pm #

        Ahh, the old aluminium foil hat responce (the easy way to out of an argument) for people who are either too arrogant to look up the facts or dont know how to think critically or just uninformed.

        • Ken Warner May 22, 2012 at 11:26 pm #

          …ok — what exactly is the amount of radiation that is emitted by those smart meters that is going to turn us into mutants?

          Come on — tell us exactly the numbers. Then tell us exactly how much radiation we get from our computer monitors, cell phones, microwaves and how much is present just from the ambient radiation of all the 60Hz alternating current in the wiring of our homes.

          Then tell us exactly how that radiation affects our metabolism and DNA.

          I mean exactly — not frothing wild hyperbole. Real numbers and real effects.

          While we wait your vital response, here’s some information for thought…

          Are radio-frequency (RF) signals from Edison SmartConnect meters safe?

          Yes. SCE’s smart metering devices communicate using low-power, wireless signals that are similar or weaker in strength than those created by common devices like cell phones or Wi-Fi networks. SCE’s meters and relays emit only a fraction of the power limits identified in the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) guidelines for safe RF exposure. The FCC developed these science-based safety guidelines in consultation with scientists, health and engineering experts and organizations like the National Council on Radiation Protection (NCRP), the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE), and the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). For more information.

          • Seth May 24, 2012 at 1:09 am #

            Not convincing…. You went right to SCE’s web sight. hmm mmm real credible….. That is like asking a car sales man what he thinks about his cars. Or what apple thinks about there computers or a drug company study on the risks of their own drug and asking the FDA about the risks…

            American Academy of Environmental Medicine Calls for Immediate Caution regarding Smart Meter Installation…Cites Human Health Impacts of Chronic Exposure to Radiofrequency (RF)


            American Academy of Environmental Medicine
            “Well documented studies showing adverse effects on health and the not fully understood quantum field effect, AAEM calls for exercising precaution with regard to EMF, RF and general frequency exposure”

    • upthecreek May 22, 2012 at 12:39 pm #

      However.. How often does SCE actually activate the meter. and I would think your average cell phone and Wifi system puts out a lot more signal than the meter.

      You can always install a lead shield over the meter cover…LOL

      • Desco May 22, 2012 at 6:27 pm #

        The meter sends info every hour for residential customers and every 15 minutes for businesses. My meter is outside my bedroom window about 36 inches above my feet when sleeping. If I come down with toe cancer heads will fly.

    • Wayne Deja May 27, 2012 at 8:48 pm #

      ….sounds like many,many excuses to maybe file some kind of law-suit in the future…how does it go?…..”We’ll FIGHT for you !!!”

  12. wake up mammoth May 21, 2012 at 10:37 pm #

    Smart meters another example of how the UN Agenda 21 is encroaching into your lives. It reads like gobbly-goop and has loads of warm and fuzzies but the devil is in the details. Mammoth needs to wake up.

    • upthecreek May 22, 2012 at 12:05 pm #

      Glad to see a few people in Mammoth are Awake …

    • Ken Warner May 22, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

      …I smell beans — is someone cooking beans???

  13. another scam May 22, 2012 at 7:09 pm #

    If you really believe that carbon dioxide is causing global warming then you need a smart meter installed between your ears.

    • Ken Warner May 22, 2012 at 11:15 pm #

      You are so clever! If wit alone could only remedy….

      May 15, 2012

      In April 2012, the average temperature of Earth’s Northern Hemisphere was the warmest of any April in the past 133 years.

      Globally, April 2012 marks the fifth warmest April since temperature records began in 1880. It was the 326th straight month with a global temperature above the average for the 20th century.

      • leatherbag May 23, 2012 at 6:22 pm #

        Wow! 5th warmest April in 133 years! Must be climate VARIATIONS. It won’t be long and the glaciers will melt from North America, the dinosaurs will become extinct, and great canyons and lakes will be formed. :rolleyes;

      • Another scam May 24, 2012 at 1:18 am #

        Why don’t you plug in your smart meter and save the world from evil Co2……. The same stuff that makes plants grow. We cant have that happen can we. Hasn’t the climate been changing since the beginning of time?

        how about the sun causing climate change…go figure

  14. Ken Warner May 22, 2012 at 11:34 pm #

    I find it interesting that you think Rapid Global Climate Change provoked by increasing CO2 levels which in turn contributes to World wide temperatures increases that have been measured and documented by literally thousands of scientists and technicians is a hoax.

    And on the other hand, you think the hoax that a smart electric meter is going to damage your DNA is real and us a U.N. plot to take over the World.

    And then you call others uninformed — that’s very entertaining.

  15. Smart meters in New Zealand linked to fire hazards May 23, 2012 at 5:31 pm #

    Here is a link in regard to smart meters causing fires. I would hate to see my favorite little mountain town in USA burn down because of some crappy technology.

    • Ken Warner May 23, 2012 at 6:54 pm #

      Well, it looks like you’re on to something. I did a little more research and found out that the were over 26,000 electrical malfunction fires in 2010. So the best bet to be really safe is not only get rid of your smart meter — de-wire your house completely. Go off the grid. That’s the only way to protect yourself from electrical fires.

      But then you should also not cook your food because there were over 160,000 cooking fires.

      And heating fires caused over 46,000 fires.

      So to be really safe, no electricity — eat raw food — and buy really warm clothes.

      Thanks for pointing out all those fires in New Zealand. That’s a real troubling issue here in Mammoth…..

  16. Big AL May 23, 2012 at 11:35 pm #

    Sounds like a new scam for power companies to make money .. they are not in the business to help customers reduce their utility costs.
    I totally can see the power companies charging a higher rate at peak consumption periods, and if they can monitor that on a daily basis, then they can up the rate to make more money at that peak period then lower it back down when usage subsides to give you a fuzzy feeling that you are not really raped.

    Much the same way the gasoline companies do it to us right now. And people who do not think it is connected to the UN’s agenda 21 will get another think coming some day.

    You have the UN applying these green measures to all countries who are member countries, with the intent to control aspects of our lives under the pretense of environmental protection. It really isn’t all about the environment as much as it is control. They won’t stop with green issues.

    And under the guise of being green friendly, big business is putting it to us by making more money off of us and say they are doing it for the green cause. Agenda 21 mandates just open the door for abuse.

    Why do we have to pay money to … opt out? Think about that. $75.00 one time opt out fee, plus $10.00 a month. And I feel it will only be a matter of time before they will just tell … you’re getting one anyways.

    • leatherbag May 24, 2012 at 11:04 am #

      “Why do we have to pay money to … opt out? Think about that. $75.00 one time opt out fee, plus $10.00 a month. And I feel it will only be a matter of time before they will just tell … you’re getting one anyways.”

      @Big Al: ^^You’re on it.^^ Or, the monthly fee will become so exorbitant, it will force those who can’t afford it to be financially forced into it. Just wait until the “smart” thermostats and plug-ins become legislated and mandated in this screwed up state. And Moonbeam can’t figure out why working people and industries are leaving the “Golden State” in droves.

      It’s time for folks to start doing what they can and save up to completely get off of the ‘grid’. It’s only a matter of time and you’re thoughts will come to fruition.

    • Doglover May 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm #

      Well I hope if they insist in putting one on my house after I opt out I hope I will get a refund!

      • Rob May 24, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

        Refund? Get your checkbook out. It will cost you $75 to opt out, then an additional $10 a month because their going to have to come out and manually read your meter.

        • Big AL May 24, 2012 at 10:11 pm #

          That $10.00 is pretty steep for them to come read my meter once a month.

      • Big AL May 24, 2012 at 9:47 pm #

        Good luck with that doglover .. mandate = no refund .. get over it lol

    • Bishop babe May 29, 2012 at 4:29 pm #

      They can charge us more for less great deal for them

  17. Ken Warner May 24, 2012 at 10:04 am #

    Big Al,

    Do you think that the electrical power providers don’t know when the peak power usage is? They are the providers. They know how much electricity they are providing at every second.

    And this person who is masquerading as many different people quoting a few lunatic websites is going to need medication soon I suspect.

    All these warnings about smart meters and all the denial about global warning is EXACTLY what the fossil fuel industry would hire a troll to spew on any blog he could find.

    Q) What is the smart grid?

    A) The modernization of the electric power grid, often called the “smart grid” by its proponents, is an important goal. Efforts such as the Advanced Metering Infrastructure (AMI), Automated Meter Reading (AMR) and the other phases of intelligent grid management are all part of a smarter grid. Having better control of the power grid will improve its reliability and efficiency and, as applications are developed for end users, point-of-use monitoring and control of power usage and generation will benefit utilities by reducing peak loads and benefit consumers by providing a way to save on their energy costs. See the ARRL Web site for more information at:

    Q) Do you mean smart meters contain an intentional RF transmitter?

    A) Sometimes. When a smart meter contains an RF transmitter:

    * The frequency of operation is typically in the 902 MHz and 2.4 GHz bands.
    * Power output is typically 1 watt in the 902 MHz band and much less in the 2.4 GHz band.

    The radio waves emitted by a GSM handset can have a peak power of 2 watts, and a US analogue phone had a maximum transmit power of 3.6 watts. Other digital mobile technologies, such as CDMA2000 and D-AMPS, use lower output power, typically below 1 watt. The maximum power output from a mobile phone is regulated by the mobile phone standard and by the regulatory agencies in each country.[

    Quackwatch lists the American Academy of Environmental Medicine as a questionable organization, and its certifying board, the Aremican Board of Environmental Medicine as a dubious certifying board.[4] They are not recognized by the American Board of Medical Specialties.[8]

    • Big AL May 24, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

      Ken .. I don’t see the health risks in these, that part is crap and you’re right there are people who spew out a lot of that, and there are those who believe in what they say on the subject.

      my point about the power companies not being in business to save us money is right on, they make their money from the power they sell us.

      I don’t need to listen to the fossil fuel industries to tell me anything, they are in business to sell fuel, power, and such and make as much money as they can, they are not concerned about green matters, they don’t want to conserve anything, they want to sell it.

      • Rob May 25, 2012 at 7:06 am #

        Same applies to LADWP. They don’t want to conserve water, they want to sell water.

  18. Ken Warner May 24, 2012 at 10:48 am #

    Here is the preamble to the U.N. Agenda 21 — boy if ever I read a blueprint for World domination and it clearly cites smart meters as being the primary tool to achieve it’s goals.

    I think they are working in concert with Cyberdyne Systems. If you peek at your smart meter at night when it thinks everybody is asleep, you’ll see it has two red eyes that are watching you.

    1.1. Humanity stands at a defining moment in history. We are confronted with a perpetuation of disparities between and within nations, a worsening of poverty, hunger, ill health and illiteracy, and the continuing deterioration of the ecosystems on which we depend for our well-being. However, integration of environment and development concerns and greater attention to them will lead to the fulfillment of basic needs, improved living standards for all, better protected and managed ecosystems and a safer, more prosperous future. No nation can achieve this on its own; but together we can – in a global partnership for sustainable development.

    • Big AL May 24, 2012 at 10:09 pm #

      Two red eyes Ken … LMAO .. you heard too many of those trolls talking about the two red eyes.

      Can you say one world order, or the mark of the beast. It’s all spelled out in the Book of Revelations.

      • just the facts May 25, 2012 at 5:37 am #

        “One world order?”
        “Mark of the beast?”
        Chill, Big.
        Your blood pressure will automatically lower at least 10 points.
        Then if you can wean yourself away from the talk-radio pundits …
        who knows how much better you’ll feel.

        • Big AL May 28, 2012 at 12:04 am #

          LOL JTF I’m chill I don’t get so worked up about that like some other people .. just saying.

          And i will tell you something else, i don’t listen to any of that junk they spew on the talk radio .. or buy into half of the junk that gets posted here.

          All of the political crap, that’s all it is.

  19. Redslate353 May 24, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

    Call it smart Growth. Call it sustainable Development. Call it Form Based Zoning. Call it Capacity Building, call it Consensus building. Call it green building. Call it education. Hey, it’s not “what is Agenda 21, its “what isn’t Agenda 21?” It not republican and not Democrat. IT’s not libertarian, and its not independent. It’s green communitarianism / communism controlled by crony corporations.

    Sustainable development is a concept constructed on the principle that government has the right and the responsibility to regulate the affairs of people to achieve government’s vision of the greatest good for all. The United States is founded on the principle that government has no rights or responsibility not specifically granted to it by the people who are governed.”

    I am against ICLEI / Agenda 21 and not against environmentalism when practiced in a sound and reasonable way. Wake up people! the environmental movement has been hijacked by big off shore corporations in bed with the government!!! Just look through the green fog…

    • Ken Warner May 25, 2012 at 9:25 am #

      …call it foolish to think that 8 billion people living on a small blue marble with no way off it have no effect on our home and that planet wide cooperation is not needed for our species to survive another 1000 years.

      The Earth at night — 8 billion people all burning coal, oil, natural gas, wood and every other form of carbon storage available. You may think you can somehow live apart from the rest of the 8 billion going on 12 billion people — but you can’t.

      • Rob May 25, 2012 at 10:39 am #

        You got that right Ken Warner. The real problem is even if we don’t burn coal here, they just ship it to China as they have no problem with burning coal.

        It won’t ever work unless it’s a World effort.

        • Big AL May 28, 2012 at 12:18 am #

          You’re right about a world effort, I truly believe that, but Agenda 21 is using this effort as a cover to a covert agenda.

          Yes we do need to change how we do things, but I don’t think our freedom sould be a price we need to pay for it.

          Accountability is one answer .. and that is something that is rapidly becoming extinct.

          No one wants to make the individual accountable for their mistakes anymore and hold them liable for their choices. So we take the approach of taking away the choice for everyone.

      • Trouble May 29, 2012 at 8:24 pm #

        Ken- not sure why you got all the negatives on this one, I guessing the truth hurts.

        • Ken Warner May 30, 2012 at 10:25 am #

          They can’t handle the truth 🙂

          I guess that all those cartoons where the character gets blown to bits and then is put back together again like Humpty-Dumpty has made people believe that the Earth is not 7926.28 miles in diameter and that’s all we get. We don’t get to trash the Earth and then move to another star.

          This is it. And people don’t like that idea.

          • Big AL May 31, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

            Ken I think we get that the earth is finite .. What we do may accelerate things some but the natural life cycle of the earth is going to run it’s course ..pretty much without our efforts. Yes we are not doing it any good in a lot of ways.

            The new world order is something that is real, and a lot of people just do not like that idea either. It is happening.

    • Big AL May 28, 2012 at 12:08 am #

      Yes amen Redslate, that is what people don’t understand about A 21. being environmentally responsible is one thing .. but to blindly follow something like this because you believe it is right.

  20. Just the facts May 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm #

    The reverse side of the Great Seal of the United States (1776). The Latin phrase “novus ordo seclorum”, appearing on the reverse side of the Great Seal since 1782 and on the back of the U.S one-dollar bill since 1935, means “New Order of the Ages” and only alludes to the beginning of an era where the United States of America is an independent nation-state, but is often mistranslated by conspiracy theorists as “New World Order” or “One World Order”

    Those foaming-at-the-mouth at all things governmentaltoday have been listening to Limbaugh a wee bit too much … especially in an election year.

  21. reality May 31, 2012 at 6:23 am #

    Sit back and educate your self on who your rulers really are. This film was made in 2006. What has not come true? History does not lie. Learn who your rulers really are. Or you could stay asleep and keep watching the 6:00 news.


    • Ken Warner May 31, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

      I’ll see your Alex Jones and raise you a David Icke shape shifting alien reptile….

      • Big AL May 31, 2012 at 8:46 pm #

        LOL Ken

      • Redslate353 May 31, 2012 at 11:31 pm #

        Ahh the old endgame flick! I heard they are trying to ban it from youtube. I guess it must be true. AJ was spot on for predicting ‘Builderberger’ RIck Perry to be a runner up for president. As for david ike,… he is a nut case.

        You would need to be living under a rock to think the NWO doesnt exist. Ken was just preaching about his support for global governance a few comments back. A21 is the NWOs action plan. ICLIE is implementing it. How obvious can it be? All to save us from global warming by taxing our breath… genius!

        Look at the continuity in international media. They are openly admitting it now. Can anybody use common logie here?

        “We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the NEW WORLD ORDER.”
        – David Rockefeller in 1994 at a U.N. dinner

        Out of the crisis: a “real” economy and WORLD GOVERNANCE system

        The Campaign was launched in April 2007.. A UN Parliamentary Assembly would be the first parliamentary body directly representing the world’s citizens in the UN system. It is envisaged as a first step towards the long-term goal of a WORLD PARLIAMENT.
        Or at the Campaign site in the ‘welcome’ area:

        Indian parliamentarians for a GLOBAL PARLIAMENT at UN – May 17th 2012


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